Youtube liveaboard stars?

[mvweebles]

I found Atticus online a few years ago when she was sewing and he was doing fiberglass work. Their Pardee days as you so aptly note. They were still in Isla Mujeres. I said to myself "ya know, if I bumped into them at a bar, I'd pickup a round or two of drinks for them." I've done okay in life so I sent them a PayPal donation of $50.

A month or two later, I was watching one of their episodes about equipping their boat and I noted radar wasn't even mentioned yea or nay. So I dropped an email asking their thinking as I thought it would be helpful to their audience. It was a nice, respectful note of curiosity.

I received back a short and polite note that said they were very busy and only had time for their Patreon donors, so if I'd like to cough up some cash..... I responded that I had indeed sent money, but didn't expect anything in return. Just asking questions in the same vein mariners chat - a certain sense of cruisers comradery.

Contrast that with folks like Peggie Hall and Steve D'Antonio and the Dashews. These are people with immense experience and knowledge. And they give freely of their time and knowledge. And there are some incredibly knowledgeable people in lists like this that give great knowledge. I've solved a couple vexing problems with help from folks like CF contributors.

At any rate, nothing against Atticus. I still watch them from time to time. But it did open my eyes to a very different approach to the cruisers code than I was used to. It's a business for them which is the way it should be I suppose. I thought they were like me but they are not and I was wrong to super-impose that thinking. The smiles and halcyon days are for the camera. It sells. And they need to make money. But it did sour me on the whole slick sailor YT video/patreon thing.

Maybe I'm bitter too.

Peter

[SVSOLITAIRE]

Originally Posted by mvweebles

I found Atticus online a few years ago when she was sewing and he was doing fiberglass work. Their Pardee days as you so aptly note. They were still in Isla Mujeres. I said to myself "ya know, if I bumped into them at a bar, I'd pickup a round or two of drinks for them." I've done okay in life so I sent them a PayPal donation of $50.

A month or two later, I was watching one of their episodes about equipping their boat and I noted radar wasn't even mentioned yea or nay. So I dropped an email asking their thinking as I thought it would be helpful to their audience. It was a nice, respectful note of curiosity.

I received back a short and polite note that said they were very busy and only had time for their Patreon donors, so if I'd like to cough up some cash..... I responded that I had indeed sent money, but didn't expect anything in return. Just asking questions in the same vein mariners chat - a certain sense of cruisers comradery.

Contrast that with folks like Peggie Hall and Steve D'Antonio and the Dashews. These are people with immense experience and knowledge. And they give freely of their time and knowledge. And there are some incredibly knowledgeable people in lists like this that give great knowledge. I've solved a couple vexing problems with help from folks like CF contributors.

At any rate, nothing against Atticus. I still watch them from time to time. But it did open my eyes to a very different approach to the cruisers code than I was used to. It's a business for them which is the way it should be I suppose. I thought they were like me but they are not and I was wrong to super-impose that thinking. The smiles and halcyon days are for the camera. It sells. And they need to make money. But it did sour me on the whole slick sailor YT video/patreon thing.

Maybe I'm bitter too.

Peter

Very mature response about super-imposing your perspective. You are indeed right that to them it is a business. It’s just disappointing I suppose.

[jtsailjt]

Originally Posted by sea2ocean

They're not sailing training videos, so I don't understand what you comment even means. Sorry, but nobody wants to watch bitter, angry old men sailing. The last two women he hired on the boat knew well what they were doing.



Yeah, you might convince yourself of the last part....

There are lots of well made, interesting videos about sailing or cruising that aren’t really training videos, their focus is not on bikini babes, and I haven’t seen a single one made by a bitter, angry old man. So I don’t know where you got the idea that the only 2 options are videos focused on the crews physical asserts or ones made by bitter, angry, old men. FYI there’s a LOT of middle ground in between those 2 extremes.

[mvweebles]

Tir3r444i,,

Originally Posted by jtsailjt

There are lots of well made, interesting videos about sailing or cruising that aren’t really training videos, their focus is not on bikini babes, and I haven’t seen a single one made by a bitter, angry old man. So I don’t know where you got the idea that the only 2 options are videos focused on the crews physical asserts or ones made by bitter, angry, old men. FYI there’s a LOT of middle ground in between those 2 extremes.

Yy6

[Scratchee]

Originally Posted by SVSOLITAIRE

Holly Martin (wind hippy sailing (gecko) has done it right. She has a patreon but it doesn’t feel forced

I've watched some of her videos and I really like her style. PLEASE NOTE that this is not the same "Sailing Geckos" that is mentioned in the post above yours (I think he meant "Lazy Gecko") that has adult content. Ms. Martin is just a young single-hander making her way around the world and posting videos about it.

[jtsailjt]

Originally Posted by mvweebles

I'll caution about Monday morning quarterbacking. Doodles has a shtick that revolved around partying and such, but in the end, they have sailed a bunch. Something went horribly wrong. You have to be pretty darn arrogant to say "what a moron. I'd never find myself in those circumstances."

I've known a couple very experienced captains who had very unfortunate accidents, one instance put a very capable boat on the rocks on the Baja Penninsula that ultimately resulted in loss of life (not his). I can assure you, the captain left no stone unturned in avoiding the catastrophe, and I can also assure you that many, many people second guessed his decisions.

In the end, a better question what causes him to do what he did? Why wouldn't I do the same thing? As others have said, it's seldom a single failure, but a domino falls that triggers a series of events. Compounded by sleep deprivation of a single hander, and you just never know that you'd have a different outcome.

Peter

Yes, something(s) went horribly wrong and I think I spelled out a few of them. They all involved things the skipper failed to do such as consider the weather forecast before setting out, or make sure the anchor and rode is secure by at least 2 methods, or consider the strength of your boats davits vs the expected weather for any passage outside sheltered waters, and when he noticed something wasn’t right while motoring, rather than investigating what might be wrong he pushed forward on the throttle, which caused more problems that led to a situation that highlighted his earlier failure to equip his boat with a high capacity bilge pump, and THEN he’s whining because he didn’t even have his boat insured for the area he was sailing in! That’s quite a list of poor decisions or poor seamanship or whatever you want to call it. But it wasn’t just a bit of bad luck or one isolated bad decision that snowballed on him. I’m familiar with the “don’t judge,” everybody gets an A culture and if that’s what it takes for you to feel good about yourself (along with suggesting I'm "arrogant" for pointing our specific mistakes he made (as opposed to saying he's a moron)) then go to it. But unless we recognize that these things didn’t just “go wrong” by themselves, then there will be no lessons learned and someone else will think it’s appropriate to undertake a voyage like this as unprepared as he was, and will likely have a similar result.



One thing you brought up that hasn’t been discussed about this voyage is the issue of singlehanding for 48 hours along the busy shipping/fishing/boating area of the east coast and how it impacted his voyage. Singlehanders who head offshore, when faced with stronger than expected winds from forward of the beam would be less tempted to motor and would instead just reduce sail, adjust the course a bit, and carry on about their normal routine. But when you have a specific destination in mind and hope to arrive in a certain amount of time the temptation is stronger to use the engine to avoid a big delay that tacking would cause. Also, singlehanders sailing offshore typically pass through busy boating areas and then are out in the open ocean where they can more safely get the rest they need to avoid becoming excessively fatigued and prone to poor decision making. So, sailing along the US east coast with numerous other boats on both parallel and intersecting courses rather than just heading offshore meant that he needed to try to stay fairly alert all the time. That’s doable for 48 hours in calm conditions but in 30 knots and bashing into it with the engine running so you can’t even take a 30 minute catnap it eventually leads to fatigue and less than optimum awareness of your surroundings and poor decision making that can lead to neglecting something that needs attention or misdiagnosing a minor problem, thus turning it into a bigger problem. Again, choosing to sail in a busy shipping area leading to sleep deprivation and its associated mental fatigue didn’t just happen to him, he chose it by heading out along the coast for longer than he could remain alert and fully functional without being reasonably sure the weather would cooperate and allow him to get at least a bit of rest.

[mvweebles]

Originally Posted by jtsailjt

Yes, something(s) went horribly wrong and I think I spelled out a few of them. They all involved things the skipper failed to do such as consider the weather forecast before setting out, or make sure the anchor and rode is secure by at least 2 methods, or consider the strength of your boats davits vs the expected weather for any passage outside sheltered waters, and when he noticed something wasn’t right while motoring, rather than investigating what might be wrong he pushed forward on the throttle, which caused more problems that led to a situation that highlighted his earlier failure to equip his boat with a high capacity bilge pump, and THEN he’s whining because he didn’t even have his boat insured for the area he was sailing in! That’s quite a list of poor decisions or poor seamanship or whatever you want to call it. But it wasn’t just a bit of bad luck or one isolated bad decision that snowballed on him. I’m familiar with the “don’t judge,” everybody gets an A culture and if that’s what it takes for you to feel good about yourself (along with suggesting I'm "arrogant" for pointing our specific mistakes he made (as opposed to saying he's a moron)) then go to it. But unless we recognize that these things didn’t just “go wrong” by themselves, then there will be no lessons learned and someone else will think it’s appropriate to undertake a voyage like this as unprepared as he was, and will likely have a similar result.

One thing you brought up that hasn’t been discussed about this voyage is the issue of singlehanding for 48 hours along the busy shipping/fishing/boating area of the east coast and how it impacted his voyage.

I was good with a lot of what you say, except the highlighted part about everyone gets an "A" culture. I just think a more productive discussion would be along the lines of "I know there are a ton of people out there with stern davits. The sheer number of them lull others into a sense of security - heck, what are the chances of boarding seas of that height? But you know what, there's more to it than that....." And then describe that just because they were manufactured by a marine company doesn't mean they are sturdy enough for pounding - no boarding seas needed to cause an issue. Same discussion with an anchor, or anything on-deck.

BTW, I seem to recall one of the last Doodles I watched he was talking about lashing that new dinghy to keep it from swinging. If I recall, he used the old lashings and left it that he'd get back to it.

Look, I have a couple hundred deliveries under my belt along the Pacific Coast, 85% or more northbound into prevailing weather. A BIG reason I stopped delivering sailboats is the thought of going forward for some reason - something on the mast, something on the foredeck, something somewhere. Before departing, I would spend the better part of a day lashing stuff down. Why? One of my first deliveries as a crew an anchor broke free in headseas and damn near stove-in the bow. As crew, I had the good fortune of going forward. I was scared and vowed not to do it again. I was also on a sport-fisher with the dinghy mounted on the foredeck that shifted in heavy seas. Outboard broke-out the center salon window - I can still see the glass shard Swords of Damocles hanging down. So I learned my lesson then and there.

All I'm saying is ratchet-down the hurumph talk and take the lessons as productive at someone else's expense, but heed them as a harbinger as outcomes of unfortunate circumstances that none of us are 100% immune to, but many of us take extra steps to reduce risk. But the risk never goes to zero.

Being in heavy seas - even if they are only perceived as heavy seas - works on your mind after several hours. Adlard Coles writes about the evolution of thinking over time in heavy weather. I think these discussions would greatly benefit from putting yourself not just in the same circumstances, but in the same overall experience, including the previous hours as you second-guess your decision and then, suddenly, realize it's too late to bail. Or you hear the "Bang" of something breaking. Anyone who has spent any time on passages - even coastal passages - has experienced a change in weather or an incorrect assumptions, or simply made a bad decision out of haste or resistance to turnaround.

I appreciate the comment on the single-handing aspect. A 57-footer is a pretty big boat when things aren't going well. Everything is bigger and heavier.

In the end, given the topic of the thread, I think the takeaway is the YouTube videos do a great job of showing the reasons why people love the cruising lifestyle, and that it's immensely approachable for many, many people. What they don't show well is some of the advanced seamanship skills needed. Vessel prep and weather routing being two.

Good conversation.

Peter

[jtsailjt]

Originally Posted by mvweebles

I was good with a lot of what you say, except the highlighted part about everyone gets an "A" culture. I just think a more productive discussion would be along the lines of "I know there are a ton of people out there with stern davits. The sheer number of them lull others into a sense of security - heck, what are the chances of boarding seas of that height? But you know what, there's more to it than that....." And then describe that just because they were manufactured by a marine company doesn't mean they are sturdy enough for pounding - no boarding seas needed to cause an issue. Same discussion with an anchor, or anything on-deck.

BTW, I seem to recall one of the last Doodles I watched he was talking about lashing that new dinghy to keep it from swinging. If I recall, he used the old lashings and left it that he'd get back to it.

Look, I have a couple hundred deliveries under my belt along the Pacific Coast, 85% or more northbound into prevailing weather. A BIG reason I stopped delivering sailboats is the thought of going forward for some reason - something on the mast, something on the foredeck, something somewhere. Before departing, I would spend the better part of a day lashing stuff down. Why? One of my first deliveries as a crew an anchor broke free in headseas and damn near stove-in the bow. As crew, I had the good fortune of going forward. I was scared and vowed not to do it again. I was also on a sport-fisher with the dinghy mounted on the foredeck that shifted in heavy seas. Outboard broke-out the center salon window - I can still see the glass shard Swords of Damocles hanging down. So I learned my lesson then and there.

All I'm saying is ratchet-down the hurumph talk and take the lessons as productive at someone else's expense, but heed them as a harbinger as outcomes of unfortunate circumstances that none of us are 100% immune to, but many of us take extra steps to reduce risk. But the risk never goes to zero.

Being in heavy seas - even if they are only perceived as heavy seas - works on your mind after several hours. Adlard Coles writes about the evolution of thinking over time in heavy weather. I think these discussions would greatly benefit from putting yourself not just in the same circumstances, but in the same overall experience, including the previous hours as you second-guess your decision and then, suddenly, realize it's too late to bail. Or you hear the "Bang" of something breaking. Anyone who has spent any time on passages - even coastal passages - has experienced a change in weather or an incorrect assumptions, or simply made a bad decision out of haste or resistance to turnaround.

I appreciate the comment on the single-handing aspect. A 57-footer is a pretty big boat when things aren't going well. Everything is bigger and heavier.

In the end, given the topic of the thread, I think the takeaway is the YouTube videos do a great job of showing the reasons why people love the cruising lifestyle, and that it's immensely approachable for many, many people. What they don't show well is some of the advanced seamanship skills needed. Vessel prep and weather routing being two.

Good conversation.

Peter

I think that any harrumphing or calling him out for being a moron was all in your head because I didn’t say that and instead listed specific things HE did wrong that caused him to get in the pickle he’s now in. I’m not cutting him any slack or letting him get away with suggesting that all these were just due to bad luck but I’m also not calling him any names such as “moron.” All the things happened because he didn’t properly prepare in lots of ways, snd then when they happened he was so fatigued he didn’t handle them well but his fatigue would have been predicted if he’d checked the weather. As you mention, Adlard Coles pointed this phenomenon out 75 years ago so nothing new there. But Adlard didn’t have access to the weather forecasts like we do today. I bet he wouldn’t be surprised by bad weather today because he’d spend the 10 minutes necessary to check out his iPhone (or other) before setting out. Lots of lessons to be learned about what not to do from this. If you decide that means he’s a moron, then that’s up to you. I’d just say that either he’s not a very good seaman and has been lucky in the past, or maybe this was an aberration and he’s normally more careful and better prepared and let down his guard this one time due to not taking a pretty short, coastal passage seriously or maybe he has personal issues going on that caused him to not prepare properly. I don’t know which is closer to the truth and it doesn’t really matter to me. But I do think that there is a benefit to discussing incidents like this as objectively as possible without being criticized for “Monday morning quarterbacking” or being “arrogant.”

You’re right we’ve all been surprised by weather. I got caught between Freeport and Port Canaveral in 50+ knot winds out of the north [emoji15]but that was 25 years ago when I didn’t have an iPhone with half a dozen weather apps that would tell me to expect it. But still, I’m not blaming the pickle I found myself in on anyone else but myself because the real cause of it was I allowed myself to be afflicted by getthereitis by being overly conscious of my crews need (desire) to get back to work. Today, on a 48 hour voyage within 20 miles or so of the east coast of the US there is no reason for anyone to be surprised by big enough winds/seas to wipe out a davit hung dinghy on a 56’ boat if they’ve taken even a casual look at a few weather forecasts. Weathermen certainly aren’t perfectly accurate but we can now easily poll a whole slew of them and I can’t believe they were all predicting calm winds and flat seas for the next 48 hours when he left.

I can well imagine that your experience with an anchor breaking loose was pretty terrifying. I’ve never had that happen and hope not to. But because I’ve read enough accounts (such as yours) of others doing it and taking ownership and explaining just how their anchor broke loose, I’ve made a mental note to ALWAYS secure it with redundancy. I also have had some experience with a RIB that I thought was lashed securely onto the foredeck moving around due to the tremendous forces when waves broke into and on top of it but there were no waves breaking over my transom so maybe some rugged davits would have been a better place for it. As you mention, there are all kinds of davits, some much stronger than others. And then there are different sized dinghys. So one size does not fit all regarding the decision about how to store your dinghy on a passage. But he made the choice to get a big dinghy with a console and big motor which probably seemed great for partying and cruising around the harbor with a bikini babe seated next to him, but when he did that he knew he couldn’t stow it on deck and needed substantial davits to support it, which he apparently knew he didn’t have. Priorities. He wanted the luxury of a big dinghy, big outboard, and the more “civilized” console type arrangement, but that prevented him from being able to properly secure it at sea. My boat came with that type of dinghy and I promptly sold it to buy one I could (just barely) store upside down between my mast and inner forestay. I’m not saying that’s the best way or not, but it’s a nice option to have.

[Valmika]

* The Vagabond couple. The real star are the eyes of the young lady. How did that young buck come up with the cash for that yacht and endless voyage anyway? Again, the real treasure is his lovely co-star.


He started with a 100K Beneteau cyclades in Italy. Meet her created the channel and started making good money on You tube. He was an offshore oil rig welder before and got injured on the job. I believe the new boat was at a discount because of their following, with some French government loans and a lot of income from Patreon on YT




* The SVVelos crew. Once again, how did that young man buy that 52' yacht and endless voyage? I think it even has a scuba tank compressor.



Brian was a successful computer guy in Seattle , owned a house and nice car just wanted to get away from it for a while. Sold it all, bought the boat with some of the money on from a loan Gave himself and girlfriend (not the present wife) enough reserves for two years sailing and figured he 'd make a decision when he was out of money.



I guess the YT channel started supporting them a bit after that, They did have to leave the boat for a bit to go back to work and I believe he always had some coding projects that he worked on remotely.






* Followtheboat. Middle aged couple with 42' boat. This one seem real. He was a DJ so their audio quality is always very good. They focus on education about liveaboard challenges.


Dont know anything about these guys financials.




* EmeraldSteel. Another trip into a fantasy world. She somehow maintains an amazing middle aged figure. We are left to wonder if this is due to exercise or genetics. He was a home builder and can make a huge ships mast with a knife and saw (an exaggeration). Their boat is made of steel. Of course he knows how to maintain it himself.



Emerald steel built their own boat (she learned to weld to do it) He is very handy with all kinds of work and takes on odd jobs where ever they settle for a while. I support them on Patreon also




* There are a few single guys doing their liveaboard/sailing thing. Having a hard time competing with the couples I would think.
* There is a new couple from Australia. I hope they make a lot more videos.

Have I been missing the best ones? Who do you like?


I like Sailing Millienal falcon,(your Australian couple maybe) and Odd life crafting, and Expedition Evans For how to stuff you can't beat boatworks today. No sailing but great info.







[/QUOTE]

[mvweebles]

Jtsailjt - I'll leave you the last word as we agree on much more than not. I just want to clarify that I didn't mean to imply you called anyone a moron. I felt your approach a bit harsh, but no where near over the line let alone name calling.

My apologies if my words were imprecise or poorly chosen

Best regards and happy holidays

Peter

[mvweebles]

Originally Posted by Valmika

* The Vagabond couple. The real star are the eyes of the young lady. How did that young buck come up with the cash for that yacht and endless voyage anyway? Again, the real treasure is his lovely co-star.


He started with a 100K Beneteau cyclades in Italy. Meet her created the channel and started making good money on You tube. He was an offshore oil rig welder before and got injured on the job.




* The SVVelos crew. Once again, how did that young man buy that 52' yacht and endless voyage? I think it even has a scuba tank compressor.



Brian was a successful computer guy in Seattle , owned a house and nice car just wanted to get away from it for a while. Sold it all, bought the boat with some of the money on from a loan Gave himself and girlfriend (not the present wife) enough reserves for two years sailing and figured he 'd make a decision when he was out of money.



I guess the YT channel started supporting them a bit after that, They did have to leave the boat for a bit to go back to work and I believe he always had some coding projects that he worked on remotely.






* Followtheboat. Middle aged couple with 42' boat. This one seem real. He was a DJ so their audio quality is always very good. They focus on education about liveaboard challenges.


Dont know anything about these guys financials.




* EmeraldSteel. Another trip into a fantasy world. She somehow maintains an amazing middle aged figure. We are left to wonder if this is due to exercise or genetics. He was a home builder and can make a huge ships mast with a knife and saw (an exaggeration). Their boat is made of steel. Of course he knows how to maintain it himself.



Emerald steel built their own boat (she learned to weld to do it) He is very handy with all kinds of work and takes on odd jobs where ever they settle for a while. I support them on Patreon also




* There are a few single guys doing their liveaboard/sailing thing. Having a hard time competing with the couples I would think.
* There is a new couple from Australia. I hope they make a lot more videos.

Have I been missing the best ones? Who do you like?


I like Sailing Millienal falcon,(your Australian couple maybe) and Odd life crafting, and Expedition Evans

[/QUOTE]How did they pay for these boats? I've read that Vagabond and Delos make over $10k per episode. 52 episodes per year......

[Valmika]

Originally Posted by Statistical

The only thing I watch is Sail Life. Mads is funny, nerdy, and has some serious DIY skills. As I am looking at some DIY work in my future it also has helped me to temper my plans on how much I want to improve/replace at least initially.

Anyone know of similar DIY work channels or even a all around ailing channel which is heavy on DIY work?

For real DIY (and no sailing) watch boatworks today channel

[sea2ocean]

Originally Posted by mvweebles

In a way, I sort of respect the Sailing Geckos gal. This mother of two and her videographer husband makes no apology about their adventure, including purchase of a $500k Cat to replace their original monohull, is funded by monthly subscriptions to her porn site. YouTube sailing Channel is just a teaser site to get people to her Patreon site where her porn subscriptions are sold. They're pretty upfront about it. Sort of weird, especially with two young children in the background (YT vids - can't speak to the porn vids). But absolutely zero deception. You get what you pay for. You want more? Gotta pay.

Peter

Damn, I had no idea. I did see that she flaunted herself more than a little on the vlog. She's more than a bit pudgy to me. I did find some videos online. Dedicated woman to have her husband's name tattood below her bikini line.

I'd probably pay for the unmasked videos of early Delos just for josje alone, but not these folks. That said, they do hide it well.

[calmissile]

Originally Posted by Valmika

For real DIY (and no sailing) watch boatworks today channel

Agree, this channel is the best one I have found that deals with how to do fiberglass construction/repairs for the novice like myself.

[Milkmannosoy]

How did they pay for these boats? I've read that Vagabond and Delos make over $10k per episode. 52 episodes per year......[/QUOTE]

They make that kind of money nowadays. Delos ran out of money a few times if I remember. They have great production value which really helped out their following over the years.

Vagabonde makes more than them but I find their videos boring. It was a long slow grind but it helps being one of the first sailing youtubers. Also doesn't hurt that theyre genetically gifted.

Sailing Nahoa and the O'kellys I think are the best ones with the O'kellys having tons of informational videos out there. They started taking youtube seriously not too long ago but have been sailing almost 20 years or so. Started on a 46ft monohull and now theyre on a leopard 46. Lots of videos on how to get a good deal on a boat and different refit videos. They have a huge solar setup. I think close to 3k watts. Nahoa isn't as informational but they have more exotic locations. I tend to get bored with so many channels sticking to the Caribbean.