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Old 19-12-2020, 22:50   #1111
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Re: Youtube liveaboard stars?

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Originally Posted by mvweebles View Post
I found Atticus online a few years ago when she was sewing and he was doing fiberglass work. Their Pardee days as you so aptly note. They were still in Isla Mujeres. I said to myself "ya know, if I bumped into them at a bar, I'd pickup a round or two of drinks for them." I've done okay in life so I sent them a PayPal donation of $50.

A month or two later, I was watching one of their episodes about equipping their boat and I noted radar wasn't even mentioned yea or nay. So I dropped an email asking their thinking as I thought it would be helpful to their audience. It was a nice, respectful note of curiosity.

I received back a short and polite note that said they were very busy and only had time for their Patreon donors, so if I'd like to cough up some cash..... I responded that I had indeed sent money, but didn't expect anything in return. Just asking questions in the same vein mariners chat - a certain sense of cruisers comradery.

Contrast that with folks like Peggie Hall and Steve D'Antonio and the Dashews. These are people with immense experience and knowledge. And they give freely of their time and knowledge. And there are some incredibly knowledgeable people in lists like this that give great knowledge. I've solved a couple vexing problems with help from folks like CF contributors.

At any rate, nothing against Atticus. I still watch them from time to time. But it did open my eyes to a very different approach to the cruisers code than I was used to. It's a business for them which is the way it should be I suppose. I thought they were like me but they are not and I was wrong to super-impose that thinking. The smiles and halcyon days are for the camera. It sells. And they need to make money. But it did sour me on the whole slick sailor YT video/patreon thing.

Maybe I'm bitter too.

Peter
Their reaction was terrible.. i dont know how many emails they get but even if they cannot answer them all, asking for a donation first is a shocking indication of their motives.
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Old 21-12-2020, 05:37   #1112
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Re: Youtube liveaboard stars?

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Their reaction was terrible.. i dont know how many emails they get but even if they cannot answer them all, asking for a donation first is a shocking indication of their motives.


No excuse for being so blatantly money grubbing but if it happened recently I imagine they might be emotionally affected by the realization of what their termite problem means. They also mention that all they do is constantly work on their boat, and add in the time it takes to produce vids and occasionally getting to actually enjoy their boat, I donít think this reality show sailing gig is quite the idyllic lifestyle they had hoped for when they chose it and maybe thats coming out in the way they responded to his request for info. Most of us can probably relate to the feeling that we spend more time working on than sailing our boats but on a really old fixer upper like theirs thatís probably pretty true.

They say theyíre planning to sell Atticus but Iím not sure who will want an old boat with termite issues. They mention some savings so for their sake I hope those savings are substantial. If they arenít, theyíre going to have to find a loan or another source of income because itís tough to make sailing videos without a sailboat. Just from watching their termite discovery video (the only one Iíve watched) I feel sorry for them because in their minds they thought they had made so much progress and were well established on their boat snd on the cusp of crossing the Pacific but are now realizing theyíre going to have to start all over again from scratch. Thatís a pretty bitter pill to swallow.
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Old 21-12-2020, 06:11   #1113
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Re: Youtube liveaboard stars?

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No excuse for being so blatantly money grubbing but if it happened recently I imagine they might be emotionally affected by the realization of what their termite problem means. ..... Most of us can probably relate to the feeling that we spend more time working on than sailing our boats but on a really old fixer upper like theirs thatís probably pretty true.

They mention some savings so for their sake I hope those savings are substantial. If they arenít, theyíre going to have to find a loan or another source of income because itís tough to make sailing videos without a sailboat. Just from watching their termite discovery video (the only one Iíve watched) I feel sorry for them because in their minds they thought they had made so much progress and were well established on their boat snd on the cusp of crossing the Pacific but are now realizing theyíre going to have to start all over again from scratch. Thatís a pretty bitter pill to swallow.
These folks seem like a nice couple, they really do. That said, I've watched many of their videos over the years. They spent 2-years fixing-up the boat and he's quite talented. The termite thing could not have been a surprise, and it's not something that he couldn't fix in a few days time (you can see prior repairs to the bulkhead in the video). The termite thing is 100% contrived and not a "bitter pill" at all. They just want a bigger, newer boat, and they can get it for free - no savings needed. Kickstarter campaign is up to $65k. Donate enough money and your name will be included in a brass plaque on the new boat.

My, how times have changed. Lin/Larry Pardey are frequently mentioned by Atticus as role models. They even did a joint seminar with Lin a year or so ago. But when the Pardey's wanted a new boat, they built it. Accomplished writers prior to their second Lyle Hess design, maybe it just never occurred to them that they could fundraise for direct donations.

Peter
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Old 21-12-2020, 06:17   #1114
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Re: Youtube liveaboard stars?

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No excuse for being so blatantly money grubbing but if it happened recently I imagine they might be emotionally affected by the realization of what their termite problem means. They also mention that all they do is constantly work on their boat, and add in the time it takes to produce vids and occasionally getting to actually enjoy their boat, I donít think this reality show sailing gig is quite the idyllic lifestyle they had hoped for when they chose it and maybe thats coming out in the way they responded to his request for info. Most of us can probably relate to the feeling that we spend more time working on than sailing our boats but on a really old fixer upper like theirs thatís probably pretty true.

They say theyíre planning to sell Atticus but Iím not sure who will want an old boat with termite issues. They mention some savings so for their sake I hope those savings are substantial. If they arenít, theyíre going to have to find a loan or another source of income because itís tough to make sailing videos without a sailboat. Just from watching their termite discovery video (the only one Iíve watched) I feel sorry for them because in their minds they thought they had made so much progress and were well established on their boat snd on the cusp of crossing the Pacific but are now realizing theyíre going to have to start all over again from scratch. Thatís a pretty bitter pill to swallow.
Dont feel sorry for them. They have almost 900 patreon members with the lowest donation being 3$ a video, plus they have their merch sales. Theyre bringing in bare minimum 12k a month probably more like 15k though. As for a new boat the last video they posted had a lot of crying in it and the thumbnail was them hugging and crying. At the end of the video they ask for people to donate to their kickstarter. As of today they have 67k donated with still 31 days left to go. Seems to me like theres nothing to be sad about. They make more than most people do and they dont even have to pay for a new boat out of their own pocket. Title of the last video is "Should We Sell Atticus?" meanwhile they already had the kickstarter going for a few days with their mind already made up. Dont get me wrong I'm sure they've put in a ton of work growing their audience but the kickstarter thing is kinda gross.
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Old 21-12-2020, 07:49   #1115
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Re: Youtube liveaboard stars?

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These folks seem like a nice couple, they really do. That said, I've watched many of their videos over the years. They spent 2-years fixing-up the boat and he's quite talented. The termite thing could not have been a surprise, and it's not something that he couldn't fix in a few days time (you can see prior repairs to the bulkhead in the video). The termite thing is 100% contrived and not a "bitter pill" at all. They just want a bigger, newer boat, and they can get it for free - no savings needed. Kickstarter campaign is up to $65k. Donate enough money and your name will be included in a brass plaque on the new boat.



My, how times have changed. Lin/Larry Pardey are frequently mentioned by Atticus as role models. They even did a joint seminar with Lin a year or so ago. But when the Pardey's wanted a new boat, they built it. Accomplished writers prior to their second Lyle Hess design, maybe it just never occurred to them that they could fundraise for direct donations.



Peter

I guess I got suckered in by what they wanted me to see but not to the point of sending them money, thankfully. But your longer term perspective changes the picture a lot and does make me feel a little ill that they, and so many of these utube sailors seem to basically be what seems like quite accomplished scammers, manipulating peopleís feelings to put money in their pockets, more money than most of their contributors they are asking for money have. But this sort of thing gives me a greater appreciation for the ones who have some good content and donít try to mislead or play on emotions.
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Old 21-12-2020, 08:21   #1116
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Re: Youtube liveaboard stars?

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Originally Posted by jtsailjt View Post
...... But your longer term perspective changes the picture a lot and does make me feel a little ill that they, and so many of these utube sailors seem to basically be what seems like quite accomplished scammers, manipulating peopleís feelings to put money in their pockets, more money than most of their contributors they are asking for money have....
+1
The staging of their drama episode was so cheesy it was hard to watch, I can only imagine the work they did to rehearse all of that. They even had drone shots of their deliberations on the beach!

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... But this sort of thing gives me a greater appreciation for the ones who have some good content and donít try to mislead or play on emotions.
Agreed - there are very few of them, Free Range Sailing and Old Sea Dog comes to mind.
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Old 21-12-2020, 08:22   #1117
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Re: Youtube liveaboard stars?

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I guess I got suckered in by what they wanted me to see but not to the point of sending them money, thankfully. But your longer term perspective changes the picture a lot and does make me feel a little ill that they, and so many of these utube sailors seem to basically be what seems like quite accomplished scammers, manipulating people’s feelings to put money in their pockets, more money than most of their contributors they are asking for money have. But this sort of thing gives me a greater appreciation for the ones who have some good content and don’t try to mislead or play on emotions.
"Scammer" is a bridge too far for me. They are a classic YouTube sailing story - they started as a young couple and they bought an old boat for $5k and spent a couple years fixing it up. Their dream to sail-off was real, and they did odd-jobs along the way. She did canvas work, he did yard-work. His videos on fabricating their hard top are very helpful to anyone considering a similar upgrade. These are what I'd call the "Pardey Days" to draft-off a previous post. They really were budget cruisers in the classic sense of the word.

But, about 2-years ago, they caught-on. Patreon started to expand (no idea they have 900! Wow!), and their video production value improved dramatically. They are very good at story-boarding an episode.

It must be a bit intoxicating. Like many YouTuber's, they put up an Amazon Wish List nudging people to buy stuff for them........and people do just that. It's incredible when you think about it. Here you are in the middle of nowhere and you put out on the Internet that you want a certain-something, and some stranger just buys it for you.

So I don't think they are scammers or anything near. I think they are swept along for the ride and won't look a gift horse in the mouth. I'm sure their friends and family are as stunned as I am that you can buy a boat just by asking for money - don't even have to do the Sugar Daddy thing in return.

So they've evolved from the old-school classic shoe-string cruiser as many of their successful brethren have. Few resist that - I'm reminded of Bernard Moitessier who, rather than face the spotlight-fame of accidentally winning the first Golden Globe race just continued on his merry way and kept sailing around the world a second time.

In the end, I'm conflicted. I'm a sucker for street musicians and always toss a buck into their guitar case. But if I saw them get up and walk to a brand new F250 King Ranch pickup truck, I'd feel a bit suckered. And I wouldn't offer to buy them a new guitar. But I'd still give the next street musician a buck.

Peter
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Old 21-12-2020, 08:27   #1118
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Re: Youtube liveaboard stars?

Don't you guys think your holding the standard a little high? Do you analyze your other entertainment sources this much?

Who sits down and wonders where the money goes for Warner Bros next remake of a 70s sitcom like the Brady Bunch movie? lol
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Old 21-12-2020, 08:40   #1119
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Re: Youtube liveaboard stars?

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In the end, I'm conflicted. I'm a sucker for street musicians and always toss a buck into their guitar case. But if I saw them get up and walk to a brand new F250 King Ranch pickup truck, I'd feel a bit suckered. And I wouldn't offer to buy them a new guitar. But I'd still give the next street musician a buck.

Peter
What bothered me was the ******** excuse they used to manipulate the kickstarter. Termites in a bulkhead? So what? Fix it!

If - to use your analogy - I gave a musician a dollar and he got up and walked to his brand new King Ranch I'd have zero issues - he played music, I gave him money for that music - he gets to spend his money any way he wants. I'm totally cool with youtubers making whatever they make on patreon etc. - my wife and I are seriously discussing doing a channel to raise money for my non profit as we sail around the world - I had no idea of the possibilities, and I don't need to raise money to live as we sail, so...man sakes alive!...a few thousand a month could do some SERIOUS good in the places we'll be travelling! But I digress...

Back to the analogy - If he discovers rust in the truck bed and he claims he needs to buy a new truck and "can I help him?", then he gets nothing - fix the damn rust or buy yourself a new truck - don't trick people who don't know about auto repair into thinking you are unsafe in your King Ranch and it's totaled.

I really liked Atticus and really liked what they did for that island group a few months ago - but now I feel like this was all planed so they can by a 40+ foot boat in Panama and sail on other peoples money they didn't earn. And yeah - they've already raised enough to buy a fully blue water capable boat in good condition - hell, there's a turnkey Tayana 37 nearby Panama for sale at 50K. They could buy that and put 15K in the bank - not bad for a 20 minute video of some tears on a beach and sad music.
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Old 21-12-2020, 08:53   #1120
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Re: Youtube liveaboard stars?

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How did they pay for these boats? I've read that Vagabond and Delos make over $10k per episode. 52 episodes per year......
Of course, that's like saying the Rock makes $10mil per movie, so I'm going to go out and be a millionaire movie star.

They got in early on the youtuber game. Someone new with no money is going to have a much tougher time moving up into actually earn a good living off it. It's possible but will be much harder.
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Old 21-12-2020, 09:00   #1121
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Re: Youtube liveaboard stars?

The big channels put out high value productions regardless if you like their content or not. Its a lot of work and to put out a 15 minutes video probably takes anywhere from 35 to 50+ hours a week of editing. I give them kudos for that because my ideal cruiser life does not involve a full time job being stuck behind a laptop.

The majority of these sailing channels are not about sailing but are reality shows that just happen to be on a sailboat.

The business model is what it has always been, sex sells, nowadays more then ever. The best example is of course Sailing Doodles, its a business transaction, he's a normal / average dude who uses the bikini girls to get the views and the ad / patreon money. The bikini clout chasers use his channel to promote their Instagram and to kick start their own YT channel. Case in point, Taylor has just a couple of videos out and she has like 100k+ subscribers alread, says it all. I kind of feel sorry for that guy because in the end hes not getting any. For some of the other channels the guys don't seem to have an issue with pimping their gf or wife every week for the views and the gf / wife does not seem to mind so whatever floats their boat.
At the end of the day this business model exists because there are so many thirsty dudes out there to throw money at it. Its just like the rise of OnlyFans and IG.
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Old 21-12-2020, 09:02   #1122
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Re: Youtube liveaboard stars?

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Of course, that's like saying the Rock makes $10mil per movie, so I'm going to go out and be a millionaire movie star.

They got in early on the youtuber game. Someone new with no money is going to have a much tougher time moving up into actually earn a good living off it. It's possible but will be much harder.
not really, if you are an attractive women, you will have a 100k+ subscriber YT channel in no time.
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Old 21-12-2020, 09:02   #1123
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Re: Youtube liveaboard stars?

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These folks seem like a nice couple, they really do.
Keep in mind, the videos you see are edited for content before you ever see them.

If they have a knock down drag out fight...that footage winds up on the proverbial cutting room floor...or gets edited into a cute, she's mad at me for doing something silly clip purposely to add relatability.

One of the general travel (not sailing) ones I follow "seemed like a nice couple" in all their videos. They were all cutesy with each other and based on the videos, seemed a great couple who had it all together...then after the breakup, she started her own channel and shared the ugly side. After that it quickly degenerated and became obvious they were feeding us a line of BS the whole time.
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Old 21-12-2020, 09:06   #1124
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Re: Youtube liveaboard stars?

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Don't you guys think your holding the standard a little high? Do you analyze your other entertainment sources this much?

Who sits down and wonders where the money goes for Warner Bros next remake of a 70s sitcom like the Brady Bunch movie? lol
I see your point, but these folks are not selling fiction, they are selling a window into their world so contrivances feel a bit more of a betrayal.

That said, honesty probably wouldn't have resulted in much.

"Hey folks! Man, are we lucky! Between our YouTube subscribers and Patreon members, we feel like we've really come a long way. Know what? We're tired of this old cramped boat and salt-water showers. Now that we've made some dough, we're moving up and treating ourselves to a Tayana 37. Seeing as y'all have already shown a propensity to sending us some of your hard-earned cash, we'd sure like it if you'd send us some more. If you do, we'll put your name on a plaque of donors and mount it on our bulkhead."

I guess sometimes honesty in marketing isn't the best policy. If it were, instead of "Sushi," Japanese restaurants would advertise "Raw Dead Fish."

Peter
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Old 21-12-2020, 09:21   #1125
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Re: Youtube liveaboard stars?

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Originally Posted by mvweebles View Post
"Scammer" is a bridge too far for me. They are a classic YouTube sailing story - they started as a young couple and they bought an old boat for $5k and spent a couple years fixing it up. Their dream to sail-off was real, and they did odd-jobs along the way. She did canvas work, he did yard-work. His videos on fabricating their hard top are very helpful to anyone considering a similar upgrade. These are what I'd call the "Pardey Days" to draft-off a previous post. They really were budget cruisers in the classic sense of the word.

But, about 2-years ago, they caught-on. Patreon started to expand (no idea they have 900! Wow!), and their video production value improved dramatically. They are very good at story-boarding an episode.

It must be a bit intoxicating. Like many YouTuber's, they put up an Amazon Wish List nudging people to buy stuff for them........and people do just that. It's incredible when you think about it. Here you are in the middle of nowhere and you put out on the Internet that you want a certain-something, and some stranger just buys it for you.

So I don't think they are scammers or anything near. I think they are swept along for the ride and won't look a gift horse in the mouth. I'm sure their friends and family are as stunned as I am that you can buy a boat just by asking for money - don't even have to do the Sugar Daddy thing in return.

So they've evolved from the old-school classic shoe-string cruiser as many of their successful brethren have. Few resist that - I'm reminded of Bernard Moitessier who, rather than face the spotlight-fame of accidentally winning the first Golden Globe race just continued on his merry way and kept sailing around the world a second time.

In the end, I'm conflicted. I'm a sucker for street musicians and always toss a buck into their guitar case. But if I saw them get up and walk to a brand new F250 King Ranch pickup truck, I'd feel a bit suckered. And I wouldn't offer to buy them a new guitar. But I'd still give the next street musician a buck.

Peter


Iím sure youíre right about many of their earlier videos and I donít question they are real sailors, but when they pretend they just discovered termites and lead us to believe (as I did) that this will cause them to lose their boat and destroy all their plans and they are both crying about it, unless we help them out, when the reality is that the termite issue could be repaired and they well know theyíve already got a $65K kickstart (different from savings) towards their new boat, that feels like a deliberate scam to me.
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