How Did You Decide?

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

The injuries and deaths numbers in sailing , attributable to the sailing rather then other issues , is tiny.

Do you have a source for that? Because I have looked for actual safety data regarding cruising boats and haven't been able to find anything remotely useful.


The number of deaths from SCUBA diving each year is around one per 50,000 people who dive. SCUBA diving is widely viewed as a hazardous activity and statistically its safety is roughly comparable to most other adventure sports/activities.


On the inland waters where I sail there are perhaps 500 cruising boats. I am aware of one fatality specifically related to sailing (which I have posted about here previously) in the last five years. Anecdotal, sure, but not very good odds by comparison. Maybe the ocean's safer.

[bookdocking]

Originally Posted by dannc

I am going to riff off of Gamayun's comment to answer the OP's question a bit.

One head or two, is a "discussion" the wife and I have had a few times. She says Two Heads are Better Than One and I say, well, maybe.

Later,
Dan

I'm with your wife on this one. Two heads are better than one. However, as it stands, I don't think the second head will be a deal breaker for us. Lovely if we eventually find our boat that has 2, but maybe not necessary.

Currently our list is smallish, but I expect to expand on it as we gain in knowledge and experience. My problem currently is that what we're drawn to, may not be practical. If we follow form with our car and house buying, as well as other consumer habits our future boat with be practical, fairly comfortable but maybe not draw the eye. Saner minds will prevail even if we both feel a romantic pull towards most things that float.

So far our list is as follows
1)Single handling friendly
2)2 double beds minimum
3) Sufficient stowage
4) Workable galley
5) More than one seating location
6) preferably a cockpit that seats 4 or two stretched out
7)no major refit needed immediately

[dlj]

Originally Posted by bookdocking

I'm with your wife on this one. Two heads are better than one. However, as it stands, I don't think the second head will be a deal breaker for us. Lovely if we eventually find our boat that has 2, but maybe not necessary.

Currently our list is smallish, but I expect to expand on it as we gain in knowledge and experience. My problem currently is that what we're drawn to, may not be practical. If we follow form with our car and house buying, as well as other consumer habits our future boat with be practical, fairly comfortable but maybe not draw the eye. Saner minds will prevail even if we both feel a romantic pull towards most things that float.

So far our list is as follows
1)Single handling friendly
2)2 double beds minimum
3) Sufficient stowage
4) Workable galley
5) More than one seating location
6) preferably a cockpit that seats 4 or two stretched out
7)no major refit needed immediately

There is a balance of "keep it simple" and having enough comforts to make you enjoy your boat. Each individual must find their own balance. For sure, try your best to keep it as simple as possible, but don't make it so simple that you just don't enjoy being on your boat.

For many years, having only one head was perfect for me and my sailing desires. At my current age and current "comfort" requirements, I find 2 heads better.

Neither is right or wrong, it is what one decides is preferred.

It is this decision making process that one must make that is impossible for others to make for someone else. And those decisions run through so many systems on a boat, well, essentially all of them.

Really, there are very simple fundamentals, as John Harries says the 5 fundamentals for an off-shore cruising boat:

1) Keep the water out of the boat.
2) Keep the crew on the boat.
3) Keep the mast up.
4) Keep the keel down.
5) Keep the rudder on.

I'd highly recommend subscribing to John and Phyllis's web site, it is paid access, but for me at least, I find the cost to be very accessible.

https://www.morganscloud.com/

dj

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by bookdocking

...
...

5) More than one seating location
...
...

What does this mean?

[bookdocking]

Originally Posted by Stu Jackson

What does this mean?

I notice that most of the sailboats I look at have a very nice dinette area in the salon. It's important to me that I have some other seating area, a chair or small sofa, something below decks so I'm not trapped behind a table every time I want to read or knit.

[Macdoug]

I am not yet a full time cruiser, just a day sailor with the odd weekend/ week aboard. I bought my current boat for the following reasons.

1. I wanted something that wasn’t too slow.
2. I wanted a boat we could spend a few days on in comfort.
3. I wanted a boat that didn’t need a lot of work.
4. My wife liked it more than all the other boats we looked at.
5. It was in the range I was willing to spend at the moment.
6. I wasn’t interested in a tiny starter boat. I sailed a bit in dinghies and other peoples boats when I was younger, and didn’t feel the need, however everyone seems to preach, that you can only start sailing on a tiny boat.
7. This was never intended to be my forever boat.
8. Must be relatively easy to resell (see point 7), hence an AWB.

Note that point 4 is the key point.

As I continue to sail it is informing me more of what I want when I can cruise more full time, some of which I knew already.

1. The master cabin needs to be reasonably large. I.e. have a double bed in that isn’t narrow at one end. Doesn’t need to be island. Also must have good ventilation.
2. Shower must be separate from toilet. I don’t mind the toilet getting wet every shower if we are on board for a few days, but I think it would be much better if it didn’t.
3. Don’t want a slow boat.
4. Don’t want a boat with wooden decks. They look great, but the maintenance is a killer.
5. Needs two cabins and somewhere to store mountain bikes. My aim is to to combine visiting places and mountain biking (this is probably a very niche requirement) and would probably end up being a third cabin as it is on the current boat.
6. Sort of wondeing if it would have to have a freezer as I do miss having a G&T with ice!
7. The wife must like it.
8. Again not requiring huge amounts of work to get it up to standard. I am handy enough, but don’t want to spend months fixing decks etc.

Dream boat would be an new outremer 55, but haven’t won the lottery. Probably something around the 45 foot range or a little bigger. Maybe a cat if budget stretches that far.

Obviously there are other things beyond these that inform my decisions, but these are some of the more important ones.

[NBs]

Personally, I have already stated that the boat has chosen me a few times.

The boat has taken over and the sensibilities don’t weigh in on the horizontal cup of choices when I realize I’ve become the caretaker of the boat’s overall dominance.

Some say I own it, but I personally experience it the other way around, the boat owns me by the soul and nothing is too much for the boat, I even go for the goodness of the boat, even now it is resting in a warm hall and I work so it can rest over the winter.

How you chose your spouse, this is largely the same thing. With emotion rather than reason, you will be happy with the boat of the future.

Of course, the basic realities of the budget, the area where you want boats and the boat is able to do it, etc.

[fxykty]

Just a point about two heads on a boat for a couple. One head, whichever is more convenient and/or more comfortable, will be the head used the vast majority of the time. The other head will be used as storage, except when you have family/guests on board, and perhaps if the primary head goes down for some reason. Secondary head and/or shower is also a handy place to store weather gear">foul weather gear if you don’t otherwise have a wet locker.

Most boats over a certain size (40’?) will have at least two heads and to find a boat with just one would be difficult and rule out many otherwise suitable boats.

On our boat for some reason the second head didn’t (and still doesn’t) have a holding tank - it is an electric direct flush. We use it at sea, but never in anchorages and non discharge zones, as it is midships and a bit more comfortable at sea when things are boisterous. The other head (which is nearer to the bow) we converted to composting, removed the holding tank and permanently glassed over the three throughulls. That is our primary head and is used most of the time. It is the only head we need to clean on a regular basis.

[Anders]

Originally Posted by bookdocking

I'm with your wife on this one. Two heads are better than one. However, as it stands, I don't think the second head will be a deal breaker for us. Lovely if we eventually find our boat that has 2, but maybe not necessary.

Currently our list is smallish, but I expect to expand on it as we gain in knowledge and experience. My problem currently is that what we're drawn to, may not be practical. If we follow form with our car and house buying, as well as other consumer habits our future boat with be practical, fairly comfortable but maybe not draw the eye. Saner minds will prevail even if we both feel a romantic pull towards most things that float.

So far our list is as follows
1)Single handling friendly
2)2 double beds minimum
3) Sufficient stowage
4) Workable galley
5) More than one seating location
6) preferably a cockpit that seats 4 or two stretched out
7)no major refit needed immediately

I would change 6) to a must. No way I would buy a boat where two can't stretch out in the cockpit.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Jammer

Do you have a source for that? Because I have looked for actual safety data regarding cruising boats and haven't been able to find anything remotely useful.


The number of deaths from SCUBA diving each year is around one per 50,000 people who dive. SCUBA diving is widely viewed as a hazardous activity and statistically its safety is roughly comparable to most other adventure sports/activities.


On the inland waters where I sail there are perhaps 500 cruising boats. I am aware of one fatality specifically related to sailing (which I have posted about here previously) in the last five years. Anecdotal, sure, but nodt very good odds by comparison. Maybe the ocean's safer.

Sailing is not classed as a hazardous or extreme sport. I was once an RNLI lifeboat station chairman and saw their internal reports. Deaths and serious injury attributed to the activity are very rare amongst conventional amateur sailors.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by bookdocking

I'm with your wife on this one. Two heads are better than one. However, as it stands, I don't think the second head will be a deal breaker for us. Lovely if we eventually find our boat that has 2, but maybe not necessary.

Currently our list is smallish, but I expect to expand on it as we gain in knowledge and experience. My problem currently is that what we're drawn to, may not be practical. If we follow form with our car and house buying, as well as other consumer habits our future boat with be practical, fairly comfortable but maybe not draw the eye. Saner minds will prevail even if we both feel a romantic pull towards most things that float.

So far our list is as follows
1)Single handling friendly
2)2 double beds minimum
3) Sufficient stowage
4) Workable galley
5) More than one seating location
6) preferably a cockpit that seats 4 or two stretched out
7)no major refit needed immediately

The problem is many of these are entirely subjective.

What exactly constitutes “ single handling friendly “ , most boats these days will have the AP engaged and you can move around to the winches. Sone people like having the main sheet track immediately across the cockpit as it’s accessibke from the wheel , others think it’s awful. See it’s all subjective

Double beds , almost everything has a double bed , funnily however underway a double bed is a menace. My criteria was there must be two single settee berths capable of sleeping a 6 foot ,4 adult for passagemaking , double berths are for when your are stopped, there are also too hot most times in high summer.

Sufficient stowage , this is merely a completely subjective perspective , I’ve seen 36 footer with acres of storage cause the couple were quite minimalist , I’ve seen 50 footers overflowing with” stuff”

Workable galley , what does that actually mean. All galleys are “ workable “ some are problematic in certainly sea states , will you cook in those sea states? , what sort of cooking do you consider , what does “ workable “ really mean. I could see one galley as eminently workable , you might totally disagree

Cockpit , that’s better , on a normally two person boat , it’s an absolute must in my requirements that two people can stretch out , that actually ruled out several centre cockpits for us.

Again these selection criteria are almost entirely subjective and often not based on actual sailing experiences in the given area of water one intends to sail in.

This is why the best advice is to go sailing , but also that many boats will meet the criteria especially subjective ones.

[goboatingnow]

On the choice of heads , two or one , I agree if possible one head and one separate shower is great though I find it hard to find. We decided to drop from the three cabin version to two cabin to get a really big single head and combined shower. Far better arm swinging room , often two heads ends up with neither big enough.

In the summer almost all showering is done on the sugar scoop , we tend to shower inside in the autumn in our base marina , we find it takes about 5 minutes to dry down the shower , ( the shower needs a rub down between persons anyway ) so the drawback is quite limited. In colder climates we really appreciated separate shower to heads as the shower took a long time to dry.

So again absolute requirements are really nonsensical, you need to factor in exactly how you will use the facilities given the sea area and conditions you will commonly find yourself in. A boat sailing around western Scotland will have very different requirements then one sailing around the Ionian. ( even though common boats can easily be pressed to do both areas )

[Manlio Laschena]

I am at my third boatand all the time my only way to decide was the "intended use".
First was to make experience, second was to do coastal navigation and last blue water.
Then the criteria of price was solved with a thumb rule: " the best I can buy".
Common to my sailing is : Two people crew: myself and my wife. (BTW. I was born on sea side with good knowledge of it).
Hope my english is enough :-)

[dlj]

Originally Posted by NBs

Personally, I have already stated that the boat has chosen me a few times.

The boat has taken over and the sensibilities don’t weigh in on the horizontal cup of choices when I realize I’ve become the caretaker of the boat’s overall dominance.

Some say I own it, but I personally experience it the other way around, the boat owns me by the soul and nothing is too much for the boat, I even go for the goodness of the boat, even now it is resting in a warm hall and I work so it can rest over the winter.

How you chose your spouse, this is largely the same thing. With emotion rather than reason, you will be happy with the boat of the future.

Of course, the basic realities of the budget, the area where you want boats and the boat is able to do it, etc.

I just LOVE this response!

I'm convinced my current boat found me. When I went to look at her for the first time, I hadn't even stepped on board and I knew she was the boat for me. Going inside simply confirmed what I already knew.

dj

[captstu]

I wanted an ocean capable boat for years. Long before I bought my Voyage, I tried several different catamarans. That process knocked the Prout and a few others off my list.

Eventually I narrowed the list to two production catamarans that were both available at the Miami boat show. I made an appointment to see each of them and went to the show. I had previously chartered these two cats for a week each. Sort of like dating a future wife.

While walking between them I saw a Voyage

The boat was built in South Africa right down the road from one of my other two choices so I went on to take a look.

I bought it on the spot. Surprised the sales person by giving them a significant check hold a. build position.

I don’t know if any particular boat would be right for you and I’m certainly not pushing my choice, but a boat is much like a wife in that when you find the right one you know it at the time. And eventually may no longer be the right one.

I lived on the Voyage for five years and felt that she was capable the whole time.

Do your homework, charter your top two or three choices for a week each and enjoy their selling capabilities. That way when the right one comes along you’ll know it immediately!