How Did You Decide?

[bookdocking]

In the next five years my husband and I will be purchasing our first sailboat to liveaboard and cruise.
When you bought your boat how did you decide among all the available options?
I understand 1) PRICE 2)Intended use 3)level of comfort all to be important deciding factors in making a decision but I still feel flush with far too many options in my future.
What did you do? Did you have a list of must haves/ desired features and nice but not necessary items?
I need to climb into, if you'll pardon the disturbing image, as many sailors brains as possible. If you'd be so kind, tell me your needs and how you met them, what you decided to disregard and so on, resources you utilized, the most helpful advice you received. Thanks in advance for any responses, I really appreciate the input.

[Tetepare]

In auto racing, we start with "the nut behind the wheel", that is, who's driving. Sailing should be the same, particularly because it's more dangerous.

The answer depends on your & husband's capabilities now and in the near future. Agility, strength, ability to deal with crises. Those can all be overcome, but are a good place to start. Just (or maybe more) important is what you know about boating, sailing, and cruising.

[JoeRobertJr]

Experience: classes, charters, other people's boats, and our current stepping-stone "practice" boat.
Reading: mostly here on CF.
Full disclosure, we don't yet have our "real" boat, but we do know now what we want.

Five years is plenty of ramp up time. Best wishes!

[fxykty]

Just about every production catamaran out there will fulfil the basic requirements of safety, comfort and ability. It’s a bit like choosing a new car - what do you do in that case to whittle the many into the few and the the one?

As a starting point, this YouTube series is a pretty good, independent review of a wide variety of sailing catamarans: http://yachtrubyrose.com/tag/catamaran-reviews/

Most importantly , get out into the real world and look in person at as many different boats as you possibly can - walk the docks at marinas, contact dealers and ask to see their boats, go to boat shows. If possible, go sailing; charter if you can for at least a few days, on different makes of boats. Also different sizes, within the magic comfort range of 40-50 feet long.

At first it doesn’t matter which boats you walk on and sail on - just get onto the boat on the water and start applying how you want to live your lives to how the boat enables that, or perhaps hinders. Eventually you can start head to head comparisons between a smaller number of favourites. If you are planning to buy new, that’s when to get out the price lists and feature comparisons. If used, make up your own comparison chart for the different boats based on the qualities and features are most important to you.

And don’t forget that there is an emotional connection as well - one, or perhaps several, boats will resonate with you and will simply look better. Whatever boat you select, you want it to be the one so that when you look at your boat you will think that it’s the most beautiful one out there.

[dannc]

Five years might not be enough time....

The Boat Plan started seriously for us in 2013 but we first did some serious thinking in 2000 before the idea was put on the shelf for a few years.

We still do not have a boat, nor should we, due to work and many different family issues. I have had to talk the wifey out of BUYING a boat. It would be the absolute WORST thing we could do time wise, sailing wise, and financially. We charter instead. Far cheaper in terms of money and time for us. The other advantage of chartering is being on a variety of different boats so one can see what one likes and dislikes.

Since 2013, we have spent time on boats, trawler and sail, taking classes, looking at boats, studying boat designs, visiting boat builders, figuring out where we want to go, and the priority of visiting places, etc. The later is heavily influencing boat type, boat size and boat features.

If you have no boating experience, then start taking classes, sailing and cruising. Make sure this is something you really want to do.

Figure out WHERE you want to go cruising. This can impact boat features. For instance, our high priority place to cruise is Europe and having a shallow draft boat that can dry out as well as go on some of the canals is something that is high on our list. For a sailboat we also want a pilot house. Having said that, those requirements can be trumped by other features or circumstances.

We really do not like V berths. On some boats, you have to be a gymnast to get in an out of the V berth. This would be easier if there were hand holds, but handholds, which should be obvious to have, are not always in place.

We also do not like berths crammed up against the hull. Too much gymnastics to go to the bathroom in the middle of the night.

A center cockpit boat often has an aft cabin with a berth one does not have to crawl into or out of but not always. Some boats that meet other requirements do not have a center cockpits and have a forward stateroom with a decent berth but forward staterooms are problematic at sea. But if we were at sea we would likely be sleeping on the settee in the saloon. Making sure we have two settee's in the saloon is a requirement for us.

There are just sooooo many feature and compromises on boats, and one has to figure out what is most important for them.

Later,
Dan

[Dogscout]

1st. realize that your life is not about 1 boat. Even after shopping, making lists, viewing many boats and then buying, in some amount of time you will realize3 what is really important. After you figure it all out you will find that your second boat or even your third is the one you wanted all along. I have friends who went out and bought a big multihull with a full sized refridge and stand-up engine room. That beast is a bitch to maneuver in small marinas in the med, and expensive to berth. In big open marinas and at anchor it is a pleasant wide open home.

You will make compromises based on reasonable issues. My initial list was no Vee berth, but an incredibly good deal came along and now I have a Vee berth. Not the next time though.
I did not want a big refit project, I still ended up replacing all the running rigging, electronics, cushions, bimini and dodger. Heck I even added heat, and I have a solar project to finish.

I knew that I was mostly single handing the boat so I picked 45 ft as requirement. Looked at lots of 47 footers and bought a 43 footer.

Your gonna be living in a RV. Things are not as robust or simple as normal household things. Better know how to fix plumbing and make sure you have all your hepatitis shots before you fix the head. You are gonna get poo on you. Or you hire it all when you get back to port.

[skipmac]

As others mentioned, if this is your first boat it will be a lot more difficult to make this decision. After some time on a boat it's very likely you will have different opinions on what it is you want and don't want, like and don't like.

I picked my latest boat based on what I liked in previous boats, where I boat and of course, budget.

My list and reasons.

40-45' Enough room for my needs but not too big to easily handle shorthanded.
Cutter rig. Simpler rig, more efficient upwind.
Center cockpit/aft cabin. More private cabin for me, separate area for family and guests.
Moderate draft for the Bahamas and ICW.
Around $100k. Because if I had spent more I would still be in the dog house, and that's the one in the back yard under the tree.

I would start the process in this order.

1. Budget because no matter what your preferences if it's over your budget then it's moot.
2. Size. How big a boat do you feel comfortable handling, how many people will be living on the boat, how many and how often will there be guests.
3. Rig. Sloop or cutter simpler, fewer sails. Ketch smaller sails for the same size boat, more options for sail combinations.
4. Draft. Will you spend a lot of time in the Bahamas, Keys, SW Florida then go for a moderate draft. Crossing oceans, cruising the South Pacific deeper draft would offer some benefits.

[carlosproa]

5 years is a long time. Why not buy a starting boat couple of sizes below what you imagine you need. Go sail as much as you can with overnighters. I think you will start to notice the good the bad and the ugly. The next boat should not have the ugly part.
Even with all the nice laid plans, things can derail your plan. In my case my wife developed severe vértigo, so I sold my CAL39 and purchased a smaller old style catamaran 33 ft. It help a bit but only in coastal environments. So you adapt and get going.

In 5 years of ownership I will guarantee you that you will have a better vision of what you need and can afford

[JPA Cate]

Firstly, the most important thing of all is to get out there and sail. My own opinion is that racing on other people's boats is the best single way to experience many different boats, and their layouts, and absorb lots about sailing.

Next: "You are gonna get poo on you. Or you hire it all when you get back to port." This is, unfortunately pretty close to true. You may not get poo on you early in the affair with boats, but heads to block up. My Jim treats the water with bleach before he starts getting dirty. The good part is that skin does a good job of keeping the bacteria on the outside.

Jim knew what he wanted in this boat. So there was a list of non-negotiable requirements, 21 of them, as I recall. Monohull, no split rigs, cutter preference; fin keel, skeg rudder, no saildrives, berths parallel to centerline of boat, handholds; good engine access, water tight bulkheads fore and aft, sit down nav station, aft cockpit (don't like center cockpits, and they devote too much of their space to where you actually only spend a small amount of time. We like the open feel, rather than all crowded up. The list was based on sailing on OPB's, and owning a series of ever longer monohulls, and many years sailing. We had already crossed the Pacific when we chose this boat, and it is a one off.

All for now.

Ann

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by bookdocking

In the next five years my husband and I will be purchasing our first sailboat to liveaboard and cruise.
When you bought your boat how did you decide among all the available options?
I understand 1) PRICE 2)Intended use 3)level of comfort

I started following this forum in 2010, became serious about pursuing the dream around 2015, and realized I had a skills and knowledge gap.


In 2018 I bought my first large sailboat (24'). I sailed it locally for two years and sold it at the end of 2019, replacing it with a newer and slightly larger sailboat. I sailed this locally and trailered it to larger bodies of water for two years and it is now for sale. We intend to replace it with something larger (38'-40') though probably not until the beginning of the 2023 season.


Our selection criteria for that boat are being driven by:

1. Sufficient space for a couple on a longer trip or four people for a week
2. No larger than necessary, because a larger boat requires more strength and stamina, so hastening the dawn of the day we can no longer sail it
3. Low long-term cost of ownership and high reliability, which leads us to choices like a conventional main (vs in-mast), inboard drive (vs saildrive or v-drive), and fixed keel.
4. Good fit size wise for available slips and facilities
5. Reasonable sailing ability particularly in light airs and upwind
6. Sea kindliness
7. Sufficient air movement below decks
8. Good access to the water for swimming and diving
9. Uncluttered foredeck (leading us to avoid cutter rigs)
10. Up-to-date equipment, rig, sails, auxiliary, etc. that matches our needs so that we don't face a broad refit in the first few years of ownership
11. Use of durable materials that age well for things like portlights (metal frame with tempered glass preferred) and interior cabinetry and fixtures
12. Designed for safe movement while under way, handholds, gimballed range, not excessively beamy.

This is leading us towards boats made by Tartan, Catalina, and Sabre in the 36'-40' size range and certain specific years. We are thinking in terms of a $200,000 acquisition budget including purchase price, costs related to finding and buying the boat, initial refit, and commissioning.

[Knotical]

Don’t wait 5 yrs, get whatever you can now and start sailing and fixing things, it will help you later.

If you are inexperienced don’t make your first boat your forever boat, your needs, wants and comfort level will change with experience.

[DMF Sailing]

Originally Posted by bookdocking

In the next five years my husband and I will be purchasing our first sailboat to liveaboard and cruise.
When you bought your boat how did you decide among all the available options?
I understand 1) PRICE 2)Intended use 3)level of comfort all to be important deciding factors in making a decision but I still feel flush with far too many options in my future.
What did you do? Did you have a list of must haves/ desired features and nice but not necessary items?
I need to climb into, if you'll pardon the disturbing image, as many sailors brains as possible. If you'd be so kind, tell me your needs and how you met them, what you decided to disregard and so on, resources you utilized, the most helpful advice you received. Thanks in advance for any responses, I really appreciate the input.

Endorsing all the above common sense posts, I'd say the three big things are:

1) sail lots of boats. Other people's boats; charter boats; crew on boats, join a club. You'll start to understand what kind of sailor you are, and what kind of sailing you want to do.

2) do weekends, weeks, longer, to ensure that you actually like living aboard. Tack that onto longer trips, to ensure that you actually like passages. Motion sickness fells some folks early on, but the real killer for a lot of people I've seen starting out up here is when they realize that nothing really dries out at sea if it's cold and wet, or foggy, and if you get cold and wet, it's hard to warm up.

3) Learn what you can handle as a skipper. Over many years and many boats I have a pretty good idea of how much boat I can safely (and enjoyably!) cast off, dock, raise sails, trim sails, take offshore, troubleshoot, etc, etc, when I'm doing most or everything by myself. As a couple, you'll need to find your comfort zone.

Now, you have enough information to select a boat that works for you.

Disclaimer: This works for me, as a person who likes long, slow, meticulous development. Others will tell you to go for it now, and if that works, God bless you. It took me 20 years, and dozens of guitars, to find the guitar I like. It took me numerous years, and numerous cameras, to find the camera I like. At that rate, I may settle on my next boat in the next decade

Best of luck!

[Dave_S]

For me. I was told there are 3 features to buying boats.... Space, speed, cost. Pick any two but you can't have all three. I have since found this isn't true, you can have all three. Maybe we miss out on a huge payload but it's pretty good.

So we wanted space, performance and a competitive price. We had a reasonable budget for second hand but on the low end comparatively in the large catamaran bracket.

After deciding those features we had a short list of strong preferences. Here is the list I posted here in 2016.

Fast in light winds
Suitable for crossing oceans
Light
Dagger Boards
Outboard motors
Swing up rudders
Galley up
Can beach it
2 heads
2 showers

We ended up with all but the galley is down, which I either like now or have talked myself into it 🙂

Then we had a wish list for items that would be nice but that would not really influence the decision making. Everyone's will be variations of others.

I bought a Schionning Waterline 1480 (48+'), there are currently 2 for sale now. One in Fiji and the other in Australia. That may or may not suit you, that's the beauty of it, everyone is different.

[dlj]

Let me preface with I have been sailing pretty much my whole life. I worked in boat building for a number of years and have always done pretty much all of my own work on my boats. So I didn't have a large uphill learning curve to understand the fundamentals of boats and sailing.

First I defined what kind of sailing and where I'd be sailing my current boat. I had to establish a budget. As my current sailing direction will be a new frontier to me, I then consulted with a couple of what I consider professional sailors that have the experience in this area that I lack. I used this to flesh out what I had for ideas/preconceptions against what they would recommend.

I then made a list of needs. This was a difficult step. I don't know where you intend to cruise. If I did, I'd flesh this out more. An example, I first thought I needed a center cockpit boat. But really what I wanted were fore and aft cabins allowing me to travel with guests and having more private space.

I made a list of known boats that would fulfill those needs.

I then looked for boats that would fulfill those needs without looking at known boats - only the needs. That was an interesting one and in fact is why I now own a boat essentially unknown in the US market.

I did not want a boat I had much work to do to get it ready, although realizing that some work would be required, just because that's the nature of the beast.

I spent a long time looking. I am delighted with the result.

Good luck. Enjoy the journey.

dj

[Don C L]

So I am not living aboard, though I have. And I am only "cruising" during the summer months and any other break or weekend I can swing it. But in my own case, I knew the boat I wanted and I found one. Now, how did I know? Well, it was a matter mostly of my experiences on my own and others' boats, and chartering, but also where I was going, who I was going with and what we'd be doing. Now many might look at my boat and say it is too small, too skinny, too tippy, too old and doesn't perform like the modern designs. All true I say to that. And I really love my little boat! Go figure.

I came at it from my experience and love for sailing, not cruising per se. In other words a solid boat that I enjoy sailing makes a good cruiser for me, a "good cruiser" that I am only lukewarm on sailing will not spark a lust that will cause me to open my wallet.

I know it may not be the kind of response you were hoping for but your experiences with boats and sailing will guide your own preferences IMHO.