The Reality of Living in Australia and Covid

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by ozsailer

Dockhead, PLEASE stop with this hysteria. 1) you not in Oz, I am - this is just ********. 2) People came into Australia on the understanding that they would have to undergo quarantine at their expense. If they go back on their obligation I would be chasing them for the debt as well. 3) To my knowledge not 1 I repeat not 1 house has been repossessed to pay a debt.

Stop spreading misinformation. Its helps no one and only makes you appear to be trolling for the sake of trolling.

Ozsailer.

This is way out of line. We already had a polite discussion about this upthread, and now you come up with false accusations of trolling, and misinformation.

There is nothing "hysterical" about anything I posted, nor is there any misinformation. I only said that it is true, after all, that the state has actually announced that it MAY put charges on houses for unpaid pandemic violation fines. This is a fact. I didn't comment on whether there is anything unusual or outrageous about this, and of course it is a completely ordinary feature of any legal system that whatever assets you have are at risk if you don't pay your legal debts. I suppose it might be news to some people that relatively trivial violations can result in fines which could eventually lead to losing your house; possibly it's useful to remind people of that. In the U.S., this can happen as the result of quite trivial and even accidental mistakes with taxes, for example.

What was incorrect in this thread was some headline in one of your newspapers that houses had actually been seized. This is apparently not correct -- so far. But I never said anything that about, nor did I post any link to any such headlines. That was someone else. Several posters cleared that up above.

Now, could you calm down a little?

[GordMay]

While physical distancing, and the use of face masks, are well-known factors in preventing the spread of COVID-19, new research [ie: 1, 2, & 3] links meteorological variables such as temperature, humidity, and ultraviolet (UV) radiation to the transmission of SARS-CoV-2.

A research team led by Assistant Professor Kai Chen from the Yale School of Public Health investigated 2,669 counties throughout all regions and states in the United States from March 15 to December 31, 2020 to determine how readily the virus was transmitted.

They found [1] that warmer temperatures (above 20° Celsius), increased humidity, and higher levels of UV radiation, were moderately associated with a lower reproductive number, meaning that these factors were likewise associated with decreased person-to-person transmission. Of the three factors, absolute humidity played the greatest role.

In total, Chen and the members of his research team, determined 17.5% of the virus’ reproductive number was attributable to meteorological factors. Specifically, they found that temperature accounted for 3.73%, humidity accounted for 9.35%, and UV radiation for 4.44%.

[1] “Role of meteorological factors in the transmission of SARS-CoV-2 in the United States” ~ by Yiqun Ma et al
➥ https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-021-23866-7

[2] “Effects of temperature and humidity on the spread of COVID-19: A systematic review” ~ Paulo Mecenas et al
Considering the existing scientific evidence, warm and wet climates seem to reduce the spread of COVID-19. However, these variables alone could not explain most of the variability in disease transmission. Therefore, the countries most affected by the disease should focus on health policies, even with climates less favorable to the virus. Although the certainty of the evidence generated was classified as low, there was homogeneity between the results reported by the included studies.
Cold and dry conditions were potentiating factors on the spread of the virus.
➥ https://journals.plos.org/plosone/ar...l.pone.0238339

Maintaining relative humidity in the 40%-60% range in indoor spaces could help slow the spread of the coronavirus this winter, according to a November 18, 2020 Washington Post opinion piece [3] co-authored by Joseph Allen, associate professor of exposure assessment science and director of the Healthy Buildings program at Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health.

The authors explained that humidity can affect virus transmission in three ways. Studies suggest that higher humidity can enhance the body’s ability to fight off infection; that the coronavirus decays faster at close to 60% relative humidity than at other levels; and that drier air can lead to greater numbers of tiny coronavirus particles that travel farther and penetrate deeper into the lungs.

Sorry, the Washington Post op-ed is behind a paywall:
[3] ➥ https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...d-19-humidity/

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by El Pinguino

I think that climate stuff is nonsense.
Melbourne is a more attractive city for migrants.
Therefore we have more.
Migrants often live in tri-generational households and tend to work in transport and kindred industries.. . .

I agree.


I think it's a fool's errand to try to attribute different infection rates to one or another single factor. It's way too complex for that, and there is a big element of pure luck just to make it extra puzzling.


At the beginning of the pandemic, there was a lot of emphasis on population density as a driver of infection. But we now know that this is nonsense too, just like climate.


The prevalance of multigenerational households is probably one of the single biggest factors -- there was a paper about that.


But even that is not a dominant factor. The worst outbreak by far in our neck of the woods was in metropolitan Stockholm in April and May 2020. The biggest population of recent migrants in Northern Europe, most living in multigenerational households, is characteristic of that city.


But that cannot be the main factor, because the second biggest population of recent migrants is in Malmo, in SW Sweden, opposite Copenhagen across The Sound. Malmo was one of the least affected cities in the region, with numbers almost matching Copenhagen.


It was speculated that the difference was that South Sweden has spring break one week later than North Sweden, and that tens of thousands of people came back to Stockholm from ski trips to the Italian Alps when that was having Europe's biggest outbreak, just before the borders were closed. That didn't happen to Malmo because the borders were closed a week later, in time to stop people from going to the Italian Alps. And the rest is history. Talk about random factors.



So in my opinion it's useless to try to figure out why one area is more affected than another.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by GordMay

While physical distancing, and the use of face masks, are well-known factors in preventing the spread of COVID-19, new research [ie: 1, 2, & 3] links meteorological variables such as temperature, humidity, and ultraviolet (UV) radiation to the transmission of SARS-CoV-2.

A research team led by Assistant Professor Kai Chen from the Yale School of Public Health investigated 2,669 counties throughout all regions and states in the United States from March 15 to December 31, 2020 to determine how readily the virus was transmitted.

They found [1] that warmer temperatures (above 20° Celsius), increased humidity, and higher levels of UV radiation, were moderately associated with a lower reproductive number, meaning that these factors were likewise associated with decreased person-to-person transmission. Of the three factors, absolute humidity played the greatest role.

In total, Chen and the members of his research team, determined 17.5% of the virus’ reproductive number was attributable to meteorological factors. Specifically, they found that temperature accounted for 3.73%, humidity accounted for 9.35%, and UV radiation for 4.44%.

[1] “Role of meteorological factors in the transmission of SARS-CoV-2 in the United States” ~ by Yiqun Ma et al
➥ https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-021-23866-7

[2] “Effects of temperature and humidity on the spread of COVID-19: A systematic review” ~ Paulo Mecenas et al
Considering the existing scientific evidence, warm and wet climates seem to reduce the spread of COVID-19. However, these variables alone could not explain most of the variability in disease transmission. Therefore, the countries most affected by the disease should focus on health policies, even with climates less favorable to the virus. Although the certainty of the evidence generated was classified as low, there was homogeneity between the results reported by the included studies.
Cold and dry conditions were potentiating factors on the spread of the virus.
➥ https://journals.plos.org/plosone/ar...l.pone.0238339

Maintaining relative humidity in the 40%-60% range in indoor spaces could help slow the spread of the coronavirus this winter, according to a November 18, 2020 Washington Post opinion piece [3] co-authored by Joseph Allen, associate professor of exposure assessment science and director of the Healthy Buildings program at Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health.

The authors explained that humidity can affect virus transmission in three ways. Studies suggest that higher humidity can enhance the body’s ability to fight off infection; that the coronavirus decays faster at close to 60% relative humidity than at other levels; and that drier air can lead to greater numbers of tiny coronavirus particles that travel farther and penetrate deeper into the lungs.. .

Therefore, cold and dry places are at greater risk, than warm wet ones?


This can hardly be a big factor, considering the fact the the cold and dry parts of both Europe and North America, have been much less affected than the warm and wet parts.

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

This is way out of line. We already had a polite discussion about this upthread, and now you come up with false accusations of trolling, and misinformation.

There is nothing "hysterical" about anything I posted, nor is there any misinformation. I only said that it is true, after all, that the state has actually announced that it MAY put charges on houses for unpaid pandemic violation fines. This is a fact. I didn't comment on whether there is anything unusual or outrageous about this, and of course it is a completely ordinary feature of any legal system that whatever assets you have are at risk if you don't pay your legal debts. I suppose it might be news to some people that relatively trivial violations can result in fines which could eventually lead to losing your house; possibly it's useful to remind people of that. In the U.S., this can happen as the result of quite trivial and even accidental mistakes with taxes, for example.

What was incorrect in this thread was some headline in one of your newspapers that houses had actually been seized. This is apparently not correct -- so far. But I never said anything that about, nor did I post any link to any such headlines. That was someone else. Several posters cleared that up above.

Now, could you calm down a little?

Are you really that out of touch with how your posts are precieved by readers?
Ozsailor responded to a post that said exactly this:
"Thousands of Australians with unpaid fines for breaking Covid rules have their homes seized, bank accounts raided and licences cancelled as government chases $5.2million"

You then responded to his post with
" Doesn't sound like fake news to me."

Then after a bunch of posts you start throughing MAY like it somehow justifies your earlier statements. Geez

[El Pinguino]

Well what must one make of Chile where the worst affected region ( cases per 100,000)is the Magallanes region in the far south
https://en.mercopress.com/2021/11/03...ction-measures
which in my experience can best be described as cold and dry except when it is cold and wet.
More up to the minute news from the south here
https://elpinguino.com


Next on the list is Los Rios in the middle - mild and wet - followed close behind by Arica and Tarapaca in the far north which are both warmish and very very dry.

Read this... there is a table down page which is worth a look - and which can be sorted
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-...demic_in_Chile

Australia? Stringent? I guess everything is relative to something or other.

[El Pinguino]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

This is way out of line. We already had a polite discussion about this upthread, and now you come up with false accusations of trolling, and misinformation.

There is nothing "hysterical" about anything I posted, nor is there any misinformation. I only said that it is true, after all, that the state has actually announced that it MAY put charges on houses for unpaid pandemic violation fines. This is a fact. I didn't comment on whether there is anything unusual or outrageous about this, and of course it is a completely ordinary feature of any legal system that whatever assets you have are at risk if you don't pay your legal debts. I suppose it might be news to some people that relatively trivial violations can result in fines which could eventually lead to losing your house; possibly it's useful to remind people of that. In the U.S., this can happen as the result of quite trivial and even accidental mistakes with taxes, for example.

What was incorrect in this thread was some headline in one of your newspapers that houses had actually been seized. This is apparently not correct -- so far. But I never said anything that about, nor did I post any link to any such headlines. That was someone else. Several posters cleared that up above.

Now, could you calm down a little?

What you posted was akin to ' A friend of a friend of mine says he read something in the Murdoch press and it must be true - it was even in his flagship - the Daily Mail'

I do so miss the 'News of the World'.
It was quality journalism by present Murdoch standards.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Paul L

Are you really that out of touch with how your posts are precieved by readers?
Ozsailor responded to a post that said exactly this:
"Thousands of Australians with unpaid fines for breaking Covid rules have their homes seized, bank accounts raided and licences cancelled as government chases $5.2million"

You then responded to his post with
" Doesn't sound like fake news to me."

Then after a bunch of posts you start throughing MAY like it somehow justifies your earlier statements. Geez

That post was not mine, and ALL my statements were factually correct. Geez, indeed!

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by El Pinguino

What you posted was akin to ' A friend of a friend of mine says he read something in the Murdoch press and it must be true - it was even in his flagship - the Daily Mail'. . .

Where do you get that? I posted the simple and correct fact -- not any kind of hearsay -- that the state may indeed seize houses. In fact they have explicitly stated that they may. I quoted the state's own official statements, not the Murdoch or any other press! I don't read the Daily Mail (which I agree is utter trash, but that doesn't mean that everything written in it is incorrect). The emotional reactions in this thread to the Daily Wail article implied that the whole thing is outrageous rubbish. Yes, the headline was wrong, and it was right to point that out, but that seizure of houses is explicitly on the agenda is factually correct and NOT indeed fake news, so I stand by what I wrote.

Is it not possible to have a rational and unemotional conversation on here?

[GILow]

Regarding the whole difference in infection rates between Melbourne and Sydney, I feel much of it may be as simple as more people in Sydney are avoiding getting tested to reduce their chance of being found positive and thus being prevented from working.

I’m an Occam’s razor kinda guy.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by GILow

Regarding the whole difference in infection rates between Melbourne and Sydney, I feel much of it may be as simple as more people in Sydney are avoiding getting tested to reduce their chance of being found positive and thus being prevented from working.

I’m an Occam’s razor kinda guy.

We often forget to look at testing rates for context for infection rates. This is a good point.

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

That post was not mine, and ALL my statements were factually correct. Geez, indeed!

I quoted it from post 1935 that has your name on it.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Paul L

I quoted it from post 1935 that has your name on it.

Where I wrote: "According to a spokesman at SPER, the methods of enforcement “may include garnishing bank accounts or wages, registering charges over property, or suspending driver’s licences”

Some problem with that? That's an official statement from SPER.

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Where I wrote: "According to a spokesman at SPER, the methods of enforcement “may include garnishing bank accounts or wages, registering charges over property, or suspending driver’s licences”

Some problem with that? That's an official statement from SPER.

Wow, last post on this by me.
You quoted ozsailer's complaint saying the seizing of houses in OZ was fake news. Which it is. And your response was doesn't sound like fake news to me. Or was ozsailer's complaint actually valid to, you just negelected to acknowledge it after quoting it?

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Paul L

Wow, last post on this by me.
You quoted ozsailer's complaint saying the seizing of houses in OZ was fake news. Which it is. And your response was doesn't sound like fake news to me. Or was ozsailer's complaint actually valid to, you just negelected to acknowledge it after quoting it?

That seizure of houses is officially on the table -- what was written in the article -- is not indeed fake news. The headline was wrong.

This is one of the silliest conversations I've had on CF. I'm done with this.