First Principles For A New User

[bcn]

Is there any pattern in the equivalent differences in Mexico, and Canada. And given my neighbour's excitement this is also an issue in France/Spain.

Please don't mix issues. In Canada some RNCs have not been ported to ENCs (yet). There are gaps. Not missing updates. MX the same. Large scale charts not issued as ENCs.

Spain has no issues we are aware of. Same for France. No reported issues. With several thousands of users. We are sailing that waters.

I have received and understood the message that O-charts does no editing. However I am still trying to understand - by way of enquiring about two relevant examples - how it is that two different charts (say, Navionics and Greek vectors) can have such different qualitity in data. Is O-charts able to explain this ?

We don't know where Garmin/Navionics or C-Map are sourcing their data. And what the quality is for a given place.
In case of the Greek HO and the lack of updates I would first think about funding of public infrastructure and hence priorities.{"men in black"}. What does not make things better.

Why not asking them? Requesting updates? Being safety relevant....


One more observation:
In case of the o-charts sets one have the meta data at hand. Edition, when updated , source. One wants to double check at Google Earth or with some SAS screen shots? Options to choice from.

[bcn]

Originally Posted by sv_pelagia

Indeed, Navionics chart for Messolonghi shows much more detail.

From OpenStreetMaps..

The free open source mapping.

[rgleason]

Suggested that back awhile, it wasn't really picked up or considered although many world cruisers are finding MBtiles a huge help in areas where there are uncharted waters and reefs and they consider it a technique they would not do without. What would it take to make a few MBtiles of these problematic areas and include them in your Chart Groups?



https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...ml#post3884920

[wholybee]

Originally Posted by rgleason

Yes Navionics does show it.

@BCN
The O-charts publish date is 2024-03-04 seems pretty recent.
Have you updated your charts? Petite Bateau?
Also, I wonder if anyone has made MBtiles for this area.
Does not look like it, see

https://opencpn.org/wiki/dokuwiki/do...charts:mbtiles


Well using Sat2Chart and SasPlanet you can make your own.
See Jon Hacking's good instructional website.
Making mbTiles

Would it be ok or inappropriate to link to Jon Hacking's site or Bruce Balan's https://chartlocker.brucebalan.com/ from the Charts pages of the manual? I think it would be helpful to have a link to The Chart Locker maybe just below the information on O-Charts.

[wholybee]

Originally Posted by wholybee

Would it be ok or inappropriate to link to Jon Hacking's site or Bruce Balan's https://chartlocker.brucebalan.com/ from the Charts pages of the manual? I think it would be helpful to have a link to The Chart Locker maybe just below the information on O-Charts.

As follow-up, it would require a collaborative effort between OCPN and Brian, but it would be slick to be able to download charts from his extensive library via the chart downloader. Maybe some script could run on his site to create an XML file of it's contents?

[rgleason]

Originally Posted by wholybee

As follow-up, it would require a collaborative effort between OCPN and Brian, but it would be slick to be able to download charts from his extensive library via the chart downloader. Maybe some script could run on his site to create an XML file of it's contents?

Warren, which page are you suggesting? There are lots of pages referring to charts. We've got charts everywhere here.


MBtiles is under User Manual Advanced > Charts
We have Chart Conversion, Chart Formats, Chart Sources, CM93 Offsets, IHO ECDIS, US Pilot Charts here too.


Also under the Getting started directory we have

Chart Installation and the fith item is 5. Alternative Chart Sources
Where #2 mentions MBtiles.



I don't want to get into details about MBtiles in the Basic Manual. I could provide a link to it, but I don't want to divert new users into stuff they arent going to do yet.

[wholybee]

Originally Posted by rgleason

Warren, which page are you suggesting? There are lots of pages referring to charts. We've got charts everywhere here.


MBtiles is under User Manual Advanced > Charts
We have Chart Conversion, Chart Formats, Chart Sources, CM93 Offsets, IHO ECDIS, US Pilot Charts here too.


Also under the Getting started directory we have

Chart Installation and the fith item is 5. Alternative Chart Sources
Where #2 mentions MBtiles.



I don't want to get into details about MBtiles in the Basic Manual. I could provide a link to it, but I don't want to divert new users into stuff they arent going to do yet.

Part of the challenge might be that there are too many pages about charts. I think it would be appropriate to have a link to the Chartlocker site on the Basic Page, under alternative chart sources, adding an item 5.

I might even put it further up the page, Between O-Charts and S-63. Installing MBTiles that are premade isn't an advanced topic at all, it doesn't require any plugin, or complicated setup. S-63 *IS* advanced. I've done it and it's brutally complicated.

The current MBTiles & Other formats page is pretty intimidating, with links to other pages describing how to make them, additional software to download, etc. That should remain as an advanced page, and separate from the simple process of installing MBTiles from a popular repository.

My second comment had nothing to do with documentation at all. The chart downloader currently downloads from a few repositories, notably NOAA, but a couple others. Could other repositories like the chartlocker be added? Maybe a repository XML format could be defined, and a field could be added for a user to enter the address of a repository, and then easily get charts from any repository like the chart locker that wishes to make them available.

I just checked and this is already available! I guess sites like the chartlocker just need to know they can do this, and how.

[rgleason]

Originally Posted by wholybee

Part of the challenge might be that there are too many pages about charts. I think it would be appropriate to have a link to the Chartlocker site on the Basic Page, under alternative chart sources, adding an item 5.

Ok we can do that. I don't think Bruce would mind (Latitude Article). Is this the link you want? The Chart Locker

Originally Posted by wholybee

I might even put it further up the page, Between O-Charts and S-63. Installing MBTiles that are premade isn't an advanced topic at all, it doesn't require any plugin, or complicated setup. S-63 *IS* advanced. I've done it and it's brutally complicated.

Ok, we can do that. I think your point is good.

Originally Posted by wholybee

The current MBTiles & Other formats page is pretty intimidating, with links to other pages describing how to make them, additional software to download, etc. That should remain as an advanced page, and separate from the simple process of installing MBTiles from a popular repository.

Yes, that is why they have moved there. This information was very important and still is valuable, but not for Basic users now. We need a better MBTiles page, that page is mine, created when MBtiles were just beginning and edited sporadically. We need someone to update it big time.

Originally Posted by wholybee

My second comment had nothing to do with documentation at all. The chart downloader currently downloads from a few repositories, notably NOAA, but a couple others. Could other repositories like the chartlocker be added? Maybe a repository XML format could be defined, and a field could be added for a user to enter the address of a repository, and then easily get charts from any repository like the chart locker that wishes to make them available.
I just checked and this is already available! I guess sites like the chartlocker just need to know they can do this, and how.

What do you mean that "this is already available"? The MBtiles available are from NOAA. Yes let's see if Pavel and Bruce can create an xml file and have ChartLocker available in Downloader. Great idea. Maybe Terry could do that too.


Note O5.8.4 has some issues with MBtiles borders and working with S-63
https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...es-281464.html
https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...ml#post3848135
https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...ly-282954.html
Hopefully these are fixed with O5.9


What a total surprise. Vestas VOR Grounding Video in Mauritius, Indian Ocean

[sv_pelagia]

Just to be clear: here in western Canada (British Columbia), O-Charts ENC are definitely our goto source for truly UP-TO-DATE charts.



The CHS ENC collection indeed has a few gaps in BC, but these are continuously being filled. Indeed, just thus month yet another new CHS ENC chart filled a large gap ("Masset Inlet", that was previously only in the raster set) - - this chart was quickly available on O-Charts.



In contrast, Navionics takes months to years to include some new CHS updates in British Columbia.

[wholybee]

Originally Posted by rgleason

Ok we can do that. I don't think Bruce would mind (Latitude Article). Is this the link you want? The Chart Locker


Ok, we can do that. I think your point is good.


Yes, that is why they have moved there. This information was very important and still is valuable, but not for Basic users now. We need a better MBTiles page, that page is mine, created when MBtiles were just beginning and edited sporadically. We need someone to update it big time.


What do you mean that "this is already available"? The MBtiles available are from NOAA. Yes let's see if Pavel and Bruce can create an xml file and have ChartLocker available in Downloader. Great idea. Maybe Terry could do that too.

<snip>

See attached screenshot. It seems there is a mechanism in place for a site like Chartlocker to provide their own .xml file and work with Chartdownloader. Just enter the URL of the .xml file and, presumably, it will work. If all the chart repository sites did this, it would greatly simplify getting charts into OCPN. Unless I am not guessing what that screen is for correctly.

[rgleason]

Ok, Warren. Those changes are made, but MBtiles remain at the bottom and out of scope for Basic. I have moved S63 charts down one position.

[petit bateau]

Questions ?

Q1. Why does the Display Category (in Chart Panel Options) sometimes 'lose' its associated drop down menu ? As I fiddle around I sometimes wish to reset it to ALL, or to be sure it is still on ALL. But sometimes when I go there it is missing.

Q2. Why in the Options / Charts / Vector Chart display is it not possible to access the Select All/Clear All / Reset To Standard button which are greyed out ?

[bcn]

Originally Posted by petit bateau

Questions ?

Q1. Why does the Display Category (in Chart Panel Options) sometimes 'lose' its associated drop down menu ? As I fiddle around I sometimes wish to reset it to ALL, or to be sure it is still on ALL. But sometimes when I go there it is missing.

This would be a bug. Happens on which system? OCPN 5.8.4? Can you reproduce it?

Q2. Why in the Options / Charts / Vector Chart display is it not possible to access the Select All/Clear All / Reset To Standard button which are greyed out ?

This is by design: only available for "User Standard". For all other display categories those option doesn't make sense and leads to confusions. "I have toggled that feature and nothing is happening...". A learning from former different implementation.
So change to "User Standard" and then one can select the objects following ones special preferences.

[petit bateau]

Originally Posted by bcn

This would be a bug. Happens on which system? OCPN 5.8.4? Can you reproduce it?



This is by design: only available for "User Standard". For all other display categories those option doesn't make sense and leads to confusions. "I have toggled that feature and nothing is happening...". A learning from former different implementation.
So change to "User Standard" and then one can select the objects following ones special preferences.

Re the Display Category dropdown:

I am running OCPN 5.8.4-0 on a Win10 machine, with the Greek O-charts. On several occasions now I have noticed that the Display Category dropdown menu is missing. I have not been able to identify anything in particular that causes it to go missing. (In general I am working through the user manual trying to figure out OCPN).

On some occasions I have been able to recover the dropdown by fiddling around in the Options-Charts-Vector Charts but I have not been able to identify any repeatable cause & effect. On other occasions I have restarted OCPN and then on each occasion (so far) the drop down has returned.

=====

Re the Reset To Standard, since I cannot access any of the User Standard Objects then I guess I cannot do anything wrong, and so the Reset to Standard button may as well be greyed out. Is that the thinking ?

[bdbcat]

petit...


"Why does the Display Category (in Chart Panel Options) sometimes 'lose' its associated drop down menu ?"


By "lose", do you mean "greyed out"? Or missing entirely?


Thanks
Dave