First Principles For A New User

[nohal]

To be completely clear, I was not referring to your post as a whole, but to the product of the AI tool.

[rgleason]

@klohre

Thank you for that AI experiment. It gives us something to aim for.


That is the focus of the first page of the User Manual Basic which I think comes pretty close to what you have suggested.

[wholybee]

Originally Posted by klohre

Thanks. I will not post anything again.

I don't think there was any insinuation that your shouldn't post or that your post wasn't valuable. The post was valuable, however it shows that A.I. is still a whole lot more hype than reality, and that as it permeates into our lives it makes a lot of mistakes.

One thing I note about your post is that you spent hundreds of hours watching YouTube Videos and still don't feel comfortable. I don't think the official website has *any* instructional videos. Since that is the way people often learn now, maybe an "official" getting started video would be helpful. In 10 minutes you can download OpenCPN, install a chart, and setup a connection to a GPS. It's very simple. I think many users are overwhelmed by rpi, signalk, and all the other options discussed in the too many videos, that they miss how simple a "normal" installation really is. And maybe a single 10 minute getting started video on the official page could resolve that.

My suggestions for the video and any new user:
Use a Windows or Mac Laptop. Almost everyone has one of these so no new purchase is needed. Once you are familiar with OpenCPN and all the options and variations, then you can move to something else. I wouldn't recommended a rpi as the first OpenCPN installation to anyone, though it is a very popular option, start with something easier to learn on first.

Install a NOAA chart with the chart downloader. In you are not in the US, do this anyway for San Francisco or the Chesapeake Bay. I think it is easier to start here than to jump into the multitude of other chart options.

The easiest GPS to get setup is a through a NMEA wifi gateway, followed by a wired gateway, from either Yacht Devices or Actisence. So that is what I would include on a getting started video, and what I recommend to new users.

Then after an intro video, a video on buying a chart from o-charts and installing it, and a video covering different connection types.

[klohre]

Hi,

Final final post.

As I said I literally spent 100+ hours trying to get an alternative to the big commercial brands installed on my boat.

It was a learning experience. The open source community is amazing. OpenCPN is amazing. Going down the rabbit hole to explore anything from RPI to SignalK to... was indeed something of real value to me.

I did not have any significant problems with installing OpenCPN, buy charts and import them from o-charts and use my iPhone as a gps.

To further get into the many opportunities OpenCPN and other soft-and hardware alternatives I continued to explore and learned a lot. I bought a dAISy to connect to OpenCPN and looked at alternative wifi gateways that could transfer my SeatalkNG/NMEA data to OpenCPN.

Now I will stop. Why bother? I will buy a Raymarine Axiom and get a plug and play solution. Forget the complexities of hundreds of manuals and videos.

Focus on sailing.

I am probably too sensitive. Why would a single comment to my post impact me as it did? It was probably not intended that way.

I hoped to be respectful of the immense work so many have contributed to the development of OpenCPN. I suggested a solution that may be inspiring. I have used gpt4 many times during my exploration and have had great help. I do think it could help this community in general as well. My example was an example.

But now I will go for Raymarine and Navionics. So simple.

All the best to the developers of OpenCPN - I really admire your work.

[rgleason]

@Klohre Headed for a big commercial device? That's too bad we could have used your help. I hope the decision was not hastened by our response.

I do think that since you've learned it, you will be using it more, for planning, backup nav system, inevitably. Don't be a stranger.

[Sabado]

Originally Posted by klohre

Hi,

Final final post.


All the best to the developers of OpenCPN - I really admire your work.

I recommend adding that developer to your ignore list instead of ignoring OpenCPN completely. It's great software and the other active developers are enjoyable to communicate with.

[petit bateau]

Originally Posted by rgleason

This page has been reorganized and written by Pavel and me, please review (BCN?).
https://opencpn.org/wiki/dokuwiki/do...t_installation

I suggest the following edits which would have been helpful for me. Though having the plug-in preloaded would be far better of course.

=======

2. O-charts.org Charts
If there are no free charts for your area available through Chartdownloader Plugin, check O-Charts.org service, the most reasonable and easiest way to purchase charts for most worldwide cruising grounds (most likely has charts for your area). O-charts is a service provider for OpenCPN charts, and is one very good reason to use OpenCPN.

FAQ Frequently Asked Questions
Conditions.
From the O-charts service provider: “Charts expire after a year from the purchase date. After expiration, you cannot request updates, also it is not possible to assign an expired chart to any device, even if it still has free assignments.” (For clarity OpenCPN understand this to mean there are “no vanishing charts” and any charts you have already downoaded remain available to use on the device you downloaded them to. Charts are not licensed by O-charts from suppliers with subscription models which make charts unusable at the end of the license period.)
Follow these instructions to Install the O-charts Plugin which enables OpenCPN to read encrypted raster and vector charts.

Create account on O-Charts.org.
Purchase charts.
Follow the instructions.
Hint: During the installation, as the license gets linked to a specific device, a "System Name" chosen by the user must be entered in the O-charts online 'shop'. This is the name you are giving to the actual device that will host the licence, so choose something that will be helpful to remember later where the license has been installed. So a name such as "SY-WAVY-Win10-Asus-NavComp" might be a more helpful device name than "SY-WAVY". A problem is you only have 15-characters ! (Exception Android: automatic generation of a name…).

=========

My next query is related to O-charts themselves. However it is still in the vein of a newbies question. I have the Greek charts via O-charts, and helpfully it tells me that the update periodicity is weekly.

https://o-charts.org/shop/en/oesenc/56-greece.html

But how recent is the actual information on the charts ? I ask because I've looked at some of my standard harbours etc and significant changes have not been incorporated. The best example I've seen so far is that at Vonitsa (Bonitsa) which is a small harbour 10-miles east of Preveza, there is a large (300m) long offshore breakwater that was built several years ago. It shows clearly in Google maps, but has yet to be included in the O-charts release. Looking at the O-charts it seems to me that the underlying source is the Greek Hydrographic Office. Surely they've updated such a feature ? If they have updated it then why has it not flowed through into the O-charts release ?

[rgleason]

Originally Posted by petit bateau

https://o-charts.org/shop/en/oesenc/56-greece.html

But how recent is the actual information on the charts ? I ask because I've looked at some of my standard harbours etc and significant changes have not been incorporated. The best example I've seen so far is that at Vonitsa (Bonitsa) which is a small harbour 10-miles east of Preveza, there is a large (300m) long offshore breakwater that was built several years ago. It shows clearly in Google maps, but has yet to be included in the O-charts release. Looking at the O-charts it seems to me that the underlying source is the Greek Hydrographic Office. Surely they've updated such a feature ? If they have updated it then why has it not flowed through into the O-charts release ?

petit bateau I've incorporated most of your changes here.
https://opencpn.org/wiki/dokuwiki/do...artsorg_charts


The Greek Isles were subjected to a very tight monetary squeeze a number of years ago and owed banks millions. I expect that the chart agency has meager resources for this. We are lucky there are charts available. On the other hand Greece is a major shipping country. o-charts will know more.


But you can look at your Greek charts Chart Bars and learn more about them. See User Manual Basic then pick Chart Bar and Chart Panel you want to know more about Chart Buttons under Chart Panel Options > Display Options


I have a question for you about the first page of the User Manual Basic.
We've tried to pare down to essentials here, and summarize with links for more information, providing a step by step process.


My question right now is the "User Interface" part too intimidating, or will users just select from it as they find they need it? Also do you think users will first go through the User Interface items one by one and get familiar, then continue with the installation?


Also we'd like some feedback on the GNSS/GPS page from your own experience, with any suggestions.

[Sabado]

Originally Posted by petit bateau

=========

My next query is related to O-charts themselves. However it is still in the vein of a newbies question. I have the Greek charts via O-charts, and helpfully it tells me that the update periodicity is weekly.

https://o-charts.org/shop/en/oesenc/56-greece.html

But how recent is the actual information on the charts ? I ask because I've looked at some of my standard harbours etc and significant changes have not been incorporated. The best example I've seen so far is that at Vonitsa (Bonitsa) which is a small harbour 10-miles east of Preveza, there is a large (300m) long offshore breakwater that was built several years ago. It shows clearly in Google maps, but has yet to be included in the O-charts release. Looking at the O-charts it seems to me that the underlying source is the Greek Hydrographic Office. Surely they've updated such a feature ? If they have updated it then why has it not flowed through into the O-charts release ?

It looks like Navionics have this feature. https://webapp.navionics.com/?lang=e...key=yaqlFkco~B


You can can create MBTiles from Navionics (and other sources) charts for free. The process is not that complicated when following the instructions and, in my opinion, you will have charts that are of better quality than o-charts.

[rgleason]

Yes Navionics does show it.

@BCN
The O-charts publish date is 2024-03-04 seems pretty recent.
Have you updated your charts? Petite Bateau?
Also, I wonder if anyone has made MBtiles for this area.
Does not look like it, see

https://opencpn.org/wiki/dokuwiki/do...charts:mbtiles


Well using Sat2Chart and SasPlanet you can make your own.
See Jon Hacking's good instructional website.
Making mbTiles

[bcn]

Very simple: o-charts does not edit charts. Just publishing them for OpenCPN. As part of it.

The Greek set same as all other ENCs are edited and released by the corresponding HOs.

Being identical contentwise with the offical ENCs.

The Greek set is updated weekly. If one finds deficencies or errors, those can be reported by the user to the corresponding HO.
As always small ports or regions not regarded relevant by the HO might not get the updates with the priority one would think it should have.

[Sabado]

Originally Posted by Sabado

It looks like Navionics have this feature. https://webapp.navionics.com/?lang=e...key=yaqlFkco~B


You can can create MBTiles from Navionics (and other sources) charts for free. The process is not that complicated when following the instructions and, in my opinion, you will have charts that are of better quality than o-charts.

Here's the same area on C-Maps

[rgleason]

I'd say it is a toss up.

[petit bateau]

I've just run the update process for O-chart. The big offshore breakwater at Vonitsa definitely is not on it. Neither on the initial downloaded set, or the since updated set.

It is not a small breakwater by any means, and it has been there several years. I think it was there in 2015 (from personal memory), and it is 300m long or more.

I too know that it shows on the Navionics charts. In fact it shows on a Navionics chart from 2015 or so.

Presumably the Greek Hydrographic Office (GHO) is the source authority for the Navionics chart ? This raises the question as to whether the contract that O-charts has with the GHO is well written and/or being respected by GHO. Or is the issue on the O-charts side. ?

There is no point in O-charts telling users that updates are issued weekly (by O-charts), if in fact O-charts does not actually receive any updates from the GHO even after 7+ years. Despite GHO issuing updates to their other clients, such as to Navionics.

I appreciate this is only one example. But by understanding what is happening one can in turn understand where the weaknesses are.

[rgleason]

@petite bateau
Are you going to help?

Previous Post
I have a question for you about the first page of the User Manual Basic.
We've tried to pare down to essentials here, and summarize with links for more information, providing a step by step process.

My question right now is the "User Interface" part too intimidating, or will users just select from it as they find they need it? Also do you think users will first go through the User Interface items one by one and get familiar, then continue with the installation?

Also we'd like some feedback on the GNSS/GPS page from your own experience, with any suggestions.