Nasty new clause from Pantaenius Insurance

[jordanbigel]

Originally Posted by flee27

Feels like insurance is beginning to be something you have just so you can check the box for marinas and boat yards. Not something that actually provides the insured any financial protections/assurances.

Foster

It seems like you are all discussing Comprehensive/Hull insurance. But in my experience, Marinas only want Liability insurance (if you damage someone else's boat) - I am curious, is this accurate? Do marinas (or boat yards?) require that the boat have comprehensive insurance in addition to liability?

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by GILow

Hi all,

Not sure if this hit anyone else, but this new clause has appeared on my insurance from Pantaenius this year:

“Anchor Warranty - Any damage resulting from the boat breaking free and dragging whilst UNATTENDED at anchor is NOT covered under this policy. This clause supersedes existing clauses in the PDS.”

This is a serious change to the policy from a cruising boat perspective. Something many of you may be affected by.

Matt

Boats are lost where we are based every year. They are virtually always boats which were unattended when they started to drag.

Leaving a boat unattended at anchor is risky. If you go ashore for shopping day tours, or an evening meal you need to be very confident that the weather situation will not change while you are gone. If you are in a place where the winds come up in the afternoon you should plan to be onboard during those times. If you are ashore it is best if you stay close so you can return if the wind comes up.

If you wish to leave your boat at anchor for extended periods of time, unless you are in a bullet-proof anchorage with a safe history, you are putting your boat at risk and insurance companies have a right to exclude coverage in that event, in my view.

I worry about my boat while it is at anchor whenever I am away and I do it rarely.

[Scrimshaw4]

OK, so now I'm more confused than normal. I was told in Nov. 2021, when it was time for me to renew my policy with them, that Pantaenius Insurance was no longer insuring boats. I was subsequently referred by them to Gregory Hibbard with the Oversea Insurance Agency for American Modern boat insurance. For 2021/22 I picked up a much better policy with them than what Pantaenius had been offering and at a lower price. In fact they actually lowered my renewal price for the 2022/23 season! You might want to check them out.

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by Scrimshaw4

OK, so now I'm more confused than normal. I was told in Nov. 2021, when it was time for me to renew my policy with them, that Pantaenius Insurance was no longer insuring boats. I was subsequently referred by them to Gregory Hibbard with the Oversea Insurance Agency for American Modern boat insurance. For 2021/22 I picked up a much better policy with them than what Pantaenius had been offering and at a lower price. In fact they actually lowered my renewal price for the 2022/23 season! You might want to check them out.

Pantaenius dropped out of the US market, but they're still insuring boats elsewhere in the world.

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by rslifkin

In that sense, marinas only care about the liability part of it, not the hull coverage.

That has not been my experience. Some of them expect full coverage with the marina listed as an additional insured.

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by Jammer

That has not been my experience. Some of them expect full coverage with the marina listed as an additional insured.

Being listed as additional insured is common, as it makes it easier for the marina to recover damages against your insurance if your boat burns and trashes some of their docks, for example. I've never known a marina to require hull coverage though. It's not their problem if I can't afford to replace the boat after a loss, as long as liability for any damage caused in the process (and cleanup) is covered.

[rubberduck]

Originally Posted by Anders

§5. Severe  Weather Exclusion
This Insurance does not cover:
1. loss or damage caused by sustained winds of gale force (63 km/h) or more, and wind gusts of 90 km/h or more
occurring during a voyage in circumstances where the Vessel has departed its mooring, berth or anchorage when
a Severe Weather Warning has been issued for the area of the subject voyage or part thereof.
2. loss or damage caused when the vessel is unattended at anchor:
2.1. when a Severe Weather Warning has been issued for the anchorage area; and
2.2. when the Vessel drags or breaks free from its anchor by reason of such storm or severe weather.

Hold on, if this is the clause the OP is referencing it gives a very clear condition where you are not on the boat when a severe weather warning is issued. It does not say they will not cover you if something happens when you are not on the boat.

Now maybe the OP is referencing something new but there is a big difference between the above text and saying "they wont cover you"

[GILow]

Originally Posted by rubberduck

Hold on, if this is the clause the OP is referencing it gives a very clear condition where you are not on the boat when a severe weather warning is issued. It does not say they will not cover you if something happens when you are not on the boat.



Now maybe the OP is referencing something new but there is a big difference between the above text and saying "they wont cover you"

The key words in the clause I posted were “this clause supercedes existing clauses in the PDS”

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by rslifkin

Being listed as additional insured is common, as it makes it easier for the marina to recover damages against your insurance if your boat burns and trashes some of their docks, for example. I've never known a marina to require hull coverage though. It's not their problem if I can't afford to replace the boat after a loss, as long as liability for any damage caused in the process (and cleanup) is covered.

If they are an additional insured and the boat has hull coverage, they don't have to pay for any damage they do to the boat. Even if it's their fault. Even if it's due to negligence. The insurance pays for it, except for the deductible, which isn't large enough to be worth fighting over. They could be moving it out of their way to perform dock maintenance and forget to tie it up so that it washes up on the breakwater and the insurance would pay, and then I would have difficulty getting insurance in the future.

I don't like it but that's the way it is and it's pretty clear why marinas want it that way.

[RaymondR]

"This Insurance does not cover:

loss or damage caused when the vessel is unattended at anchor when a Severe Weather Warning has been issued for the anchorage area and when the Vessel drags or breaks free from its anchor by reason of such storm or severe weather"

[Karanga]

Originally Posted by RaymondR

"This Insurance does not cover:

loss or damage caused when the vessel is unattended at anchor when a Severe Weather Warning has been issued for the anchorage area and when the Vessel drags or breaks free from its anchor by reason of such storm or severe weather"

This is what my policy says too. And kinda understandable, from a risk (both parties) management point of view.

The issue raised by GiLow is the possibility of a NEW clause as an addendum, superseding all others within the policy, which implies that ANY unattended dragging event (day or night) and consequential damage will not be covered.

So far, we haven't established yet whether this is ANY unattended dragging or unattended dragging when a severe weather event has been forecast

[Tupaia]

Originally Posted by Anders

§5. Severe  Weather Exclusion
This Insurance does not cover:
1. loss or damage caused by sustained winds of gale force (63 km/h) or more, and wind gusts of 90 km/h or more
occurring during a voyage in circumstances where the Vessel has departed its mooring, berth or anchorage when
a Severe Weather Warning has been issued for the area of the subject voyage or part thereof.

Is this clause specific to your boat? ie due to the size of the vessel. 63km/h is a Force 7.

[GILow]

Originally Posted by Karanga

This is what my policy says too. And kinda understandable, from a risk (both parties) management point of view.

The issue raised by GiLow is the possibility of a NEW clause as an addendum, superseding all others within the policy, which implies that ANY unattended dragging event (day or night) and consequential damage will not be covered.

So far, we haven't established yet whether this is ANY unattended dragging or unattended dragging when a severe weather event has been forecast

I think the language is pretty clear. Any case of dragging while unattended, regardless of weather.

[GILow]

Originally Posted by Tupaia

Is this clause specific to your boat? ie due to the size of the vessel. 63km/h is a Force 7.

It doesn’t matter size or wind speed , as I keep trying to point out, those clauses are superseded by this new clause.

[GILow]

For those that don’t get it yet….


supersede
verb
su·​per·​sede ˌsü-pər-ˈsēd
superseded; superseding
transitive verb
1
a
: to cause to be set aside
b
: to force out of use as inferior
2
: to take the place or position of