Nasty new clause from Pantaenius Insurance

[Tupaia]

Originally Posted by GILow

It doesn’t matter size or wind speed , as I keep trying to point out, those clauses are superseded by this new clause.

I am not querying the anchoring or dragging bit.



This clause says will not cover during a "voyage". Force 7, 35knots of wind is not a lot and to limit passages to wind speeds less than this also seems very restrictive unless it relates to a relatively small vessel.

[Pete7]

I have just spent an hour reading through my policy documents and there are no such clauses in a UK policy. So it looks like there are different policies depending on your location.

I still think it's worth going back to them and querying it with them.

Pete

[Snore]

Originally Posted by GILow

Hi all,



“Anchor Warranty - Any damage resulting from the boat breaking free and dragging whilst UNATTENDED at anchor is NOT covered under this policy. This clause supersedes existing clauses in the PDS.”

GREAT!! So how do you clear into Tortola and other spots with a ragged dock, and require all crew present?????

[ChrisJHC]

Originally Posted by jordanbigel

It seems like you are all discussing Comprehensive/Hull insurance. But in my experience, Marinas only want Liability insurance (if you damage someone else's boat) - I am curious, is this accurate? Do marinas (or boat yards?) require that the boat have comprehensive insurance in addition to liability?

In Australia most (all?) marinas only want to see your liability insurance.
Usually $10 million cover.

You can either buy just this insurance or have it rolled up in your comprehensive insurance cover.

[Oceanride007]

Matt
I am also with Pantaenius and i had issues with them regarding LFP battery, that they should know difference between the toy and tool batteries against low density energy of LFP, there response was that they were not expert enough to know the difference, "but we were told to do so by our underwriters as apparently last summer they had lots of claims in Europe, Therefor..."

I would have moved insurers but was about to move into storage and i needed insurance cover last week type of thing, its also getting hard for old boats, rock and hard place, next time shop around.

What I'm saying is, its the underwriters in Germany who pull the strings.

Yes its rough. Mind you I don't think I got that wording in my contract perhaps next time around.

[Karanga]

Originally Posted by GILow

I think the language is pretty clear. Any case of dragging while unattended, regardless of weather.

Thank you for clearing this up.
Presumably everyone checking their current Pantaenius policy is unlikely to find the clause, because these things seem to be sneakily added when new policies are issued. The rest of us can probably expect this clause to be added when our policies are renewed.
It's a pretty disgusting attitude for Pantaenius to take, and so contrary to the ethos of the cruising lifestyle.
And rather worrying when viewed against my recent dragging experience (see thread on Oobleck and anchoring).

[IslandHopper]

Originally Posted by ChrisJHC

In Australia most (all?) marinas only want to see your liability insurance.
Usually $10 million cover.

You can either buy just this insurance or have it rolled up in your comprehensive insurance cover.

Depends on the Insurer, Club Marine (mine) offer liability Cover only for "Runabouts and Trailerable Powerboats, Trailer Sailers and Off beach Dingy/Multihulls."

I looked into it for mine and was informed Full Comprehensive (with Liability) was the only option they had for my vessel.

[GILow]

Further update.

First, my thanks to Karanga for getting the conversation started with Pantaenius. Pantaenius have been very reasonable and have amended the clause to a much more live-aboard-cruiser-friendly statement.

I’m not sure I should post the amended clause here as there seems to be some fluidity in where you are situated, whether you have third party or comprehensive, and goodness knows what other variables. Suffice to say that Pantaenius have imposed few conditions on the anchor clause that I would not impose on myself.

I do suggest that you check your own policy when renewal is due (as I’m sure you all do) in case this one appears for you.

Again, thanks to Karanga for getting the conversation going, and, I guess, thanks to Pantaenius for being amenable to changes.

Matt

[Simi 60]

Pants have had that clause in Australia for years.

[Simi 60]

Originally Posted by Oceanride007

Matt
I am also with Pantaenius .

What I'm saying is, its the underwriters in Germany who pull the strings.

Pretty sure you will find in Oz it's berkshire hathaway/chubb who are the underwriters

[GILow]

Originally Posted by Simi 60

Pants have had that clause in Australia for years.

Not for me they haven’t, nor in the nearly ten years I’ve been with them. They clearly stated this was a change. Both in their letter to me AND in the subsequent telephone conversation.

The final version is better suited to my needs but is still a reduction in their liability over the previous policies.

[Simi 60]

Originally Posted by GILow

Not for me they haven’t, nor in the nearly ten years I’ve been with them. They clearly stated this was a change. Both in their letter to me AND in the subsequent telephone conversation.

The final version is better suited to my needs but is still a reduction in their liability over the previous policies.

7 years ago for us
Then a few years ago when they changed underwriters their premium went up 400% and excess 700% and we'd never made a claim

Claimed it was size of vessel causing the change
Yet friends on a larger timber vessel, further north in the Whitsundays and liveaboard and also with pants did not get the increase.

Needless to say we aren't with them any longer.

[Monkenstien]

I would be sceptical I’m dealing with Pantaenius Australia at the moment over a small claim and find they are fighting tooth and nail at every step of the process to not pay out on the claim. Your only insured until you make a claim

I would steer clear of Pantaenius if you can, but that just my experience.

[Jp Nomad]

Originally Posted by Simi 60

7 years ago for us
Then a few years ago when they changed underwriters their premium went up 400% and excess 700% and we'd never made a claim

Claimed it was size of vessel causing the change
Yet friends on a larger timber vessel, further north in the Whitsundays and liveaboard and also with pants did not get the increase.

Needless to say we aren't with them any longer.

Hi Simi
Can i ask who do you use?

[Jp Nomad]

Not to hijack this thread
has anyone had any experience with full insurance from
Anchorage Marine Underwriting in Sydney?