What EXACTLY is a "blue water boat"?

[skipperguy]

Please forgive the tongue in cheek:
what was her name?

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by B23iL23

One bit of advice - The object of cruising is not the passage. We sail from A to B in order to enjoy B. The piece (passage) in between is something you just have to do to get to B, and you should do it as quickly as possible. You will spend 5% of your sailing time doing the passages and 95% bolt upright in a marina or great anchorage, enjoying the boat and all the other things that we love about cruising.

There are other ways of getting from A to B. The best reason to do it on a sailboat is because you LOVE sailing. If you love sailing then get a boat which is fun to sail. You can have all the "Blue Water" attributes (the list of which can can be debated) and still have a boat which is a joy to sail, which makes you want to get out of the harbor for a day sail even when you have nowhere you need to go, and which has the sailing ability that gives you confidence that you can go any direction in any conditions.

You see very few heavy, full keeled, double enders out enjoying a day on the bay.

[BluePeter]

I've been scared shitless at sea and I am a tough hombre. IME, most boats, regardless of their design purpose will do more than the people in them. Most boats are never utilized to their full intent and purpose. Sometimes boats that are not at all intended for the purpose of crossing oceans do indeed cross oceans. But know this:
Mid-ocean, any time of year, when those house-sized waves start rolling under you and crashing over you and the wind shrieks and wails through the rigging and you're learning how to pray, you'll be asking the dieties why in the world you didn't get the best most robust most bullet proof boat money can buy.

End of (my) story.

"If a man would pray, let him go to sea."

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by wingssail

There are other ways of getting from A to B. The best reason to do it on a sailboat is because you LOVE sailing. If you love sailing then get a boat which is fun to sail. You can have all the "Blue Water" attributes (the list of which can can be debated) and still have a boat which is a joy to sail, which makes you want to get out of the harbor for a day sail even when you have nowhere you need to go, and which has the sailing ability that gives you confidence that you can go any direction in any conditions.

You see very few heavy, full keeled, double enders out enjoying a day on the bay.

I think that depends on the size of the heavy, full keeled boat.

Many of us heavy, full keel boat owners are out day sailing all the time, but my boat has the advantage of having an outboard which makes docking much easier.

One Saturday, there were three of us beating into the wind to get out of our creek into the Chesapeake Bay. All small boats under 30' and it was quite fun

There was a Hunter 26.5, a Catalina 27, and me on my Bristol 27. The Hunter tried to motor out but was having lots of trouble due to the waves so he decided to sail when he saw me gaining on him by sailing

The Hunter had maybe 5 people onboard. I was singlehanding.

We came out and sailed down the beach maybe 5 miles together. It was very enjoyable. On the way back, several larger boats that had been racing in Hampton were coming back when we did which provided nice scenery

Wind was 12-16 knots or so and constantly gusting. Temp was about 62 degrees with Sun and puffy white clouds

[exnatalia]

Look for a Sadler 34.

Extremely well built and rated for open ocean sailing

[razermouse]

Originally Posted by CatNewBee

This is where people claim to have a blue water boat. There is no definition / distinction what qualifies for an entry, except an voluntary article of at least 500 words and a aged boat...

Take for instance a Amel, a well known world cruiser with center cockpit, power furler for all sails, single handed operable from the cockpit - not even mentioned in the list...

Totally true! I'd cross any Ocean in a 53' Super Maramu!

[john61ct]

Originally Posted by wingssail

You can have all the "Blue Water" attributes (the list of which can can be debated) and still have a boat which is a joy to sail, which makes you want to get out of the harbor for a day sail even when you have nowhere you need to go, and which has the sailing ability that gives you confidence that you can go any direction in any conditions.

Originally Posted by BluePeter

Mid-ocean, any time of year, when those house-sized waves start rolling under you and crashing over you and the wind shrieks and wails through the rigging and you're learning how to pray, you'll be asking the dieties why in the world you didn't get the best most robust most bullet proof boat money can buy.

Yep those two combined are my motivation.

I don't race, don't value speed much, so get plenty of joy, enough for the short rest of my lifetime from sailing a stable, sturdy, bulletproof hull designed for offshore.

Get comfort knowing it's ready to be put to the test, even if (as I hope) I may never actually need that aspect.

[Exile]

Originally Posted by john61ct

Yep those two combined are my motivation.

I don't race, don't value speed much, so get plenty of joy, enough for the short rest of my lifetime from sailing a stable, sturdy, bulletproof hull designed for offshore.

Get comfort knowing it's ready to be put to the test, even if (as I hope) I may never actually need that aspect.

My preference as well. It often comes down to how much of a margin one is comfortable having. The critical caveat is that "the best most robust most bullet proof boat money can buy" is more often than not a question of upkeep/maintenance and competent skippering, as opposed to boat type or brand. I'd much prefer to go offshore in challenging conditions in the Hunter Passage 450 mentioned previously than a Bristol 47 in poor condition.

[MartinR]

Many long keeled boats sail very well, many badly designed do not. Speed wise there is not nearly as much difference as people think. For example one of the entrants of the GGR was a OE32. In handicap, taken from real racing results, this boat is 7% slower than a First 32 for example. This means, when the OE32 makes 6 knots, the first 32 makes 6,4. Oceans of difference when racing, but for cruising it makes very little. In reality the difference will be less of course, as the additional weight for cruising will affect the heavy boat less.

Both are fun to sail, but in different ways. The most important factor for the sensation of speed is actually freeboard height. A lower boat will always feel faster than one with a high freeboard. So will a smaller boat at the same speed.

[Exile]

Originally Posted by MartinR

Many long keeled boats sail very well, many badly designed do not. Speed wise there is not nearly as much difference as people think. For example one of the entrants of the GGR was a OE32. In handicap, taken from real racing results, this boat is 7% slower than a First 32 for example. This means, when the OE32 makes 6 knots, the first 32 makes 6,4. Oceans of difference when racing, but for cruising it makes very little. In reality the difference will be less of course, as the additional weight for cruising will affect the heavy boat less.

I think too that the speed differential narrows as conditions get heavier. And then there's the comfort/seakindliness factor. The downside -- at least what I've noticed with my own boat -- is that it can take 10 kts. or so just to get things moving, especially if the wind is abaft the beam.

[eddiestubbs]

You may want to consider the degree of stability when upside down. If you ever roll, you don't want to be stable upside down. Which would rule out lots of double helm, dance floor, party barges; even if they are labeled "blue water". But your budget probably rules out those anyway.

[Chris777]

Try the Hallberg Rassy Rasmus. Not fast but built like a tank and many has crossed the Atlantic and even circumnavigated.

Good luck

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

Here’s what a “Blue Water Boat” can do more easily, with more comfort and less fatigue than a Coastal Cruiser” or “Weekender,”

The fact that it is 63' might have something to do with it. To be helpful you might consider what boat the OP can select for $20,000 that can do that.

[BluePeter]

Rehash the obvious, because repetition is good for the soul:

Experience with boats and your ability will dictate your choice of what boat to sail across oceans. Sail as many boats as you can. Read copiously. Eventually you will find a boat that you feel confident with. Until then, all the advice in the world is academic. As you can see from many of the posts, folks reflect on what they know, and on what they are comfortable with.

While solicited advice is always welcomed and is in many cases sage, ultimately, as long as your in the ballpark, this remains a very personal choice.

"Those who ask for advice, deserve it."
--Mark Twain

[DeValency]

Sounds you don't have a lot of experience. So, in general, an experienced sailor can safely make an ocean passage with almost any boat. So if you plan on Atlantic crossing in 7-10 years and with your limited budget at this time, buy any of these boats as long as she has been well maintained over a long time by an experienced sailor.
And then slowly start sailing around your base and for longer daily passages, weekend etc. If you'll survive this for 7 years, you'll probably be ready for an ocean crossing if you make sure your skills are in place and the boat is ready. By that time you may replace your boat anyway...
Best of luck!