Bali 4.0 - Owner's point of view

[HuffinPuff]

Apologize in advance for the long winded story. So my wife and I live on a 2017 Bali 4.0 - 4 Cabin. We tried to get an owner's version but we were never quite fast enough to get one, so we settled with the 4-cabin version.

Why a Bali, because the wife loved the interior and in the end, a happy wife is a happy life. So I came into this with a negative view of the Bali as I come from a monohull background and was a bit of a purist.

So, I did a test try and was really surprised how well it sailed. But the boat was stripped so that doesn't tell you the real story when you load it up. I added a 5 panel solar array, water maker, spare anchor and outboard, washing machine, dishwasher, electric stove top and electric oven, 1500 ah of batteries, rails on the side for safety, rails around the top for safety and better access to the boom, larger inverter, 12 GE Refrig, bow sprit, kitchenware, and of course clothes and other toys. I don't have folding props... need to get them.

So, the boat sits in the water nicely.

Down wind sailing, 15 knots of true wind at about 150* with main and jib and she sails from 7.5 to about 8.2 kts depending ocean conditions.

At 10 kts, I can do about 5.5 to 6kts

From about 70* to 120* with 15kts of wind and I can expect to see 7.5 to 8.5 kts depending on the waves.

At 10 kts, I can do 5 to 6 kts depending on the waves. If the waves are unusually large for those winds, then it will drop down to 4.5 kts which has happened to me.

When sailing into the wind, at 30*, I can do about 3kts in 18 kts of AWS... my guess is that my course over ground is not the best. I say guess because I will run one engine at that angle and she sails about 6.2 kts with a good course heading. (not really sailing I suppose... such is life)

Once I get to 40*, she really starts to sail and I can do 5.5 to 6.2 depending on the waves and assumes about 15 to 20 kts of AWS. As she moved to 70* it will work its way up to 7.5 kts.

As far as safety is concerned.

I can only speak to what I have encountered while sailing. First storm, 35 kts wind with 15 ft wave height with the occasional 20 ft. It was a storm in the Atlantic that my Captain (delivering my boat with me) and I saw when sailing past the BVIs to Ft Pierce on the Atlantic side. The storm had been out there a while and the waves had a chance to build up. Port Royale to San Juan, 27 kts sustained winds with 10 ft waves, and the last one was 30 kts of wind with 6 ft with the occasional 10 ft wave.

I definitely had to hold on to the rails while going from the bridge to the interior and vise versa. I can see if a large enough wave was breaking on top of you that it could knock you off your feet or worse. That is why I added the additional safety rails and a jackline.

I have no issues accessing the boom (5’ 11’ tall). I had my lazy jacks break in 30 kts of wind and had to lash my main sail once I got them down. I never felt like I was in danger as I have strategically added jack lines everywhere I may need to be. I actually had fun lashing the sails. It was something new.

I had my second reefing line break while sailing and had to get her pointed into the wind and set up my back up line (that was already set-up). Wave hight was about 10 ft. It did beat me up a little but nothing more than one would expect if beating into the wind with 10 ft waves.

As far as livability, I could use more easy access storage space, but I understand the newer ones have some additional cabinets. But the rest of it I love.

As for maintenance, this boat came out of charter so I have been spending every weekend getting her back to where she was. That said, in the year I have had her, I have lost my wind vane transducer and blew up my Winch (gears came apart) while I was raising my sail. That’s about it. Everything else I am fixing happened before I got on the boat.

That’s its, happy to answer any questions.

[jbinbi]

Great write up. Thanks.

[HUFFnPUFF]

Sailing to St Vincent

[HUFFnPUFF]

I know cruising cats don't point well. But, it's not as bad as some are led to believe. This was my sail from Dominica to Guadalupe

[jbinbi]

Was just watching a vid of new Ruby Rose on their new seawind 1370. Pointing well at 40 AWA. Even doing ok at 35.

I am really wondering about that. On my Hanse 348, I do 40 well, but not really ok at 35.

@HUFF, I had a lagoon 380 prior, which I believe to be one of their best sailing boats (I have sailed 4 different newer lagoon models, a few FP and 2 seawinds for comparison). 45 AWA it did great. Could get to 40 but just slow speed and lots of leeway. 50 to 70 was the sweet spot. Lots of 8-10kt speeds at that angle with 10-15 true.

It sounds like your boat is doing those numbers with a much bigger interior than the 2005 380 S2 design I had. If so, congrats. Love the interior of the Bali!

[HuffinPuff]

Originally Posted by jbinbi

Was just watching a vid of new Ruby Rose on their new seawind 1370. Pointing well at 40 AWA. Even doing ok at 35.

I am really wondering about that. On my Hanse 348, I do 40 well, but not really ok at 35.

@HUFF, I had a lagoon 380 prior, which I believe to be one of their best sailing boats (I have sailed 4 different newer lagoon models, a few FP and 2 seawinds for comparison). 45 AWA it did great. Could get to 40 but just slow speed and lots of leeway. 50 to 70 was the sweet spot. Lots of 8-10kt speeds at that angle with 10-15 true.

It sounds like your boat is doing those numbers with a much bigger interior than the 2005 380 S2 design I had. If so, congrats. Love the interior of the Bali!

Thanks and exactly what I wanted to convey. Coming up to St. Martin, we sailed along side FT, Lagoons, and Leopards and had no issues hanging with them. In most cases we all arrived within 20 minutes of each other after an 8 hour sail. Of course the 50+ footers were faster

We really like the bali and with 2 large dogs, we have plenty of space. It's like living in a small New York apartment.

[Skipper Kenny]

Most of the criticism I hear about cats not beating well is because their 'course made good' is better a little off the wind, whereas the only tac monohulls do well at is beating.

[Greg Chastain]

Hello, I have a Bali Catspace. Been cruising the West Coast of So Cal. All good. Have a code D. For those wondering the Catspace sails as well as the other 3. The interior, garage door, solid foredeck, and raised helm are awesome. Single-handed or with an assist sailing a Catspace is fun.

This is Greg's wife, Tacy. How large are those dogs???

[HUFFnPUFF]

One German Shepard and one golden retriever. Both weigh in about 84 lbs. Great security detail.

[Wandering1]

It would be good to see your tacking angle in 2m seas. I suspect you will be motoring. All this talk of sailing 40 degrees, blah, blah blah is a total waste of time. The leeway of these type of cruising cats with their tiny keels and huge windage is massive. The Bali has the most ineffective sail plan of any boat on the planet. The boom starts halfway up the mast!

[HUFFnPUFF]

I doubt anything I say will be good enough for you. But in 30kts of wind and 10 foot seas, my tack angle over ground was 110*. This was when sailing on the north side of Puerto Rico. We were doing about 6.5 kts.

[Wandering1]

Originally Posted by HUFFnPUFF

I doubt anything I say will be good enough for you. But in 30kts of wind and 10 foot seas, my tack angle over ground was 110*. This was when sailing on the north side of Puerto Rico. We were doing about 6.5 kts.

Not a chance your Bali could achieve 110deg in 30kts of wind. You are kidding yourself.
You have mini keels, huge windage, a terrible sail set up where the boom is halfway up the mast. Even a good high performance cat would not achieve 110deg inm10ft seas and 30kts. I doubt you can even make progress to windward at all. Sorry but having sailed cats all my life you are in fantasy land

[Tin Tin]

Originally Posted by HUFFnPUFF

I doubt anything I say will be good enough for you. But in 30kts of wind and 10 foot seas, my tack angle over ground was 110*. This was when sailing on the north side of Puerto Rico. We were doing about 6.5 kts.

Unfortunately on this forum, the only good way to support any numbers like this is with a video on the plotter and instruments showing all the relevant data, also show the tachs are at 0!, The video might be 5 minutes or longer so you can get a tack in and show the track on the chart after new course has settled. Recording on an iPad is better than a phone. It is not that easy to do in heavy weather first time.

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by Wandering1

Not a chance your Bali could achieve 110deg in 30kts of wind. You are kidding yourself.
You have mini keels, huge windage, a terrible sail set up where the boom is halfway up the mast. Even a good high performance cat would not achieve 110deg inm10ft seas and 30kts. I doubt you can even make progress to windward at all. Sorry but having sailed cats all my life you are in fantasy land

You’re calling the OP a lier? Now, 110* tacking angle sounds optimistic but reasonable to me, even though we don’t know if motor sailing or positive current played a role.

As far as your comment “Even a good high performance cat would not achieve 110deg inm10ft seas and 30kt” - you’re absolutely wrong. We easily sail 90-100* tacking angles in just about any sea conditions and our speed under staysail and double reefed main (30 knots TWS, correct?) is 8.5-9 knots at 32* AWA. 3m seas are not that big, though of course it’s the period and not the height that’s important.

[Wandering1]

Originally Posted by fxykty

You’re calling the OP a lier? Now, 110* tacking angle sounds optimistic but reasonable to me, even though we don’t know if motor sailing or positive current played a role.

As far as your comment “Even a good high performance cat would not achieve 110deg inm10ft seas and 30kt” - you’re absolutely wrong. We easily sail 90-100* tacking angles in just about any sea conditions and our speed under staysail and double reefed main (30 knots TWS, correct?) is 8.5-9 knots at 32* AWA. 3m seas are not that big, though of course it’s the period and not the height that’s important.

Read this
https://sailsurfroam.com/blog-michae...bp03893ie1vv6v
An honest assessment of upwind ability from a larger and more sporty cat with trick sails.
He talks about 120deg in the conditions the OP boasts about