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Old 09-10-2018, 04:30   #16
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Re: What EXACTLY is a "blue water boat"?

For me, blue water cruising has nothing whatsoever to do with climate or location, just survivability, a vessel which will take care of its crew when the sea state gets rough, with the least tiring motion and best possible safety for its occupants.

It is all about robust design, best possible safety for its occupants when the sea gets rough, strength to withstand the most dangerous conditions that will destroy weaker boats.

IOW **designed for** long offshore passage-making, even RTW - and of course build quality, structural integrity to fullfil those design goals. Including safety around reefs, against grounding in general.

Also sea-kindly, with the least tiring motion.

"if a boat is a good boat, when real trouble comes she is best left alone. She knows better what to do than you, and if you leave her alone she will do the right things" Tony Marchaj


Yes these factors may mean sacrificing other qualities, especially for those on a limited budget. To me it is a no-brainer to improve my odds of staying alive, even if my life is only threatened 1% of the time, to sacrifice living comfort for the 99% safer times, I just do not put that much value in comfort and convenience.

And all the above is just "the good bones" part, preparing a sound but older bargain boat to be "safe enough" for actual extended offshore passage-making can easily cost more than its purchase price.

Whether you're going near the poles or staying in warmer waters is just a detail that will change some of the outfitting choices.
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Old 09-10-2018, 04:44   #17
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Re: What EXACTLY is a "blue water boat"?

"Bluewater" is one of those irregular adjectives that can only be applied in the first person:


"my bluewater boat"
"our bluewater boat"


Uses such as "their bluewater boat," "her bluewater boat," "his bluewater boat," etc., are of course not grammatically correct.
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Old 09-10-2018, 04:57   #18
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Re: What EXACTLY is a "blue water boat"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CatNewBee View Post
I consider blue-water boats as vessels outfitted to sail in warm / tropical regions around the Equator (Caribbean, Australia, Pacific islands). They are very basic outfitted for bare foot sailing and island hopping.

They can be equipped for long-distance ocean passages with the trade winds too, with downwind sails, long range communication devices and water makers but this is an another category (for me) - I would call them world cruising blue-water vessels.

The opposite to the blue-water boats would be more rigid constructions (aluminum, steel) capable to sail the cold waters / roaring 40's, Greenland, north passage, Magellan strait, North Europe (Norway, Iceland), Canada, Alaska, Tasmania, South polar region etc. They would have furnaces instead of A/C installed and much better foul weather protection and insulation.

All three categories can be re-fitted to become a live-aboard capable to the life style and sailing preferences of their owners.

The forth category in my mind are "house-boats", they are any type of vessel that are not meant to be moved any longer distances and stay most of the time docked somewhere as stationary floating homes.
You obviously have no idea about the water color up here 70deg N

The first category you mention has nothing to do with blue water sailing. Instead it's called island hopping. Nothing wrong with that of course..
The latter two are both true blue water boats, just for different regions. No need for metal up here, actually wood is preferred by many..
Teddy
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Old 09-10-2018, 05:02   #19
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Re: What EXACTLY is a "blue water boat"?

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You obviously have no idea about the water color up here 70deg N

The first category you mention has nothing to do with blue water sailing. Instead it's called island hopping. Nothing wrong with that of course..
The latter two are both true blue water boats, just for different regions. No need for metal up here, actually wood is preferred by many..
Teddy
The water is blue only when the sun is shining and the skies are clear of clouds. A blue water boat is one best for calm sunny weather.
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Old 09-10-2018, 05:39   #20
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Re: What EXACTLY is a "blue water boat"?

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The water is blue only when the sun is shining and the skies are clear of clouds. A sundowner is one best for calm sunny weather.
There, fixed it for you
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Old 09-10-2018, 05:57   #21
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Re: What EXACTLY is a "blue water boat"?

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There, fixed it for you
I've got a question in my mind when reading this:

Can a Tequila Sunrise be a Sundowner?
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Old 09-10-2018, 06:17   #22
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Re: What EXACTLY is a "blue water boat"?

This thread has been an interesting read. As has been oft-mentioned here, the cost of outfitting an older used boat may exceed the purchase price. In my case, I purchased my current boat, an '81 Hunter 27, at roughly book value ($6K) which was in good or better condition (mostly) as a turn-key weekender...which is what it was designed for. Outfitting costs to make the boat a full-time liveaboard, safe and reliable enough to do extended coastal cruising initially cost nearly twice what I paid for the boat...and that was for what I consider "minimal" concerns (i.e. those "comfort" zones that have also, and rightly so, been mentioned here). And then there are the maintenance and repair costs considerations as one uses/upgrades/breaks the boat (I just had to replace a lost rudder, an unexpected emergency and repair cost). It would be easy to spend an additional $20K or so on the boat and there would still be something else that needs work.
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Old 09-10-2018, 06:31   #23
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Re: What EXACTLY is a "blue water boat"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by WingRyder View Post
... , I just want to make sure that I would feel confident in the boat to brave a crossing, or heavy seas.


-Harrison.
It's always entertaining to read what others think about subjects such as this.

Frankly, you have it backwards. The fundamental concept you wrote of feeling confident in a boat implies the boat takes care of the sailor. It is in reality the opposite - the sailor is what makes any boat seaworthy.

I've been fortunate to have sailed across the Pacific visiting places most people never heard of and in all of those places, I saw every conceivable boat brand and size. They were all there. The only common trait was the ability and desire of the crew.
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Old 09-10-2018, 06:33   #24
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Re: What EXACTLY is a "blue water boat"?

Here’s what a “Blue Water Boat” can do more easily, with more comfort and less fatigue than a Coastal Cruiser” or “Weekender,”
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Old 09-10-2018, 06:35   #25
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Re: What EXACTLY is a "blue water boat"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Teknishn View Post
This thread has been an interesting read. As has been oft-mentioned here, the cost of outfitting an older used boat may exceed the purchase price. In my case, I purchased my current boat, an '81 Hunter 27, at roughly book value ($6K) which was in good or better condition (mostly) as a turn-key weekender...which is what it was designed for. Outfitting costs to make the boat a full-time liveaboard, safe and reliable enough to do extended coastal cruising initially cost nearly twice what I paid for the boat...and that was for what I consider "minimal" concerns (i.e. those "comfort" zones that have also, and rightly so, been mentioned here). And then there are the maintenance and repair costs considerations as one uses/upgrades/breaks the boat (I just had to replace a lost rudder, an unexpected emergency and repair cost). It would be easy to spend an additional $20K or so on the boat and there would still be something else that needs work.
I actually bought my Good Old Boat as an experiment to see if I could deal with slow boat sailing after racing Beach Cats so long which hit speeds of 25 knots. We raced buoy races and distance to 100 miles as far as 15 - 20 miles off shore

As far as the old full keel boats, you can get one for $2,000 (as I did) or so but you will definitely end up putting say another $6,000 - $8,000 in them over a few years to make them right

I have maybe $8,000 - $9,000 in mine now after (7) seven years and I still haven't replaced electronics, the rigging, chain plates, thru hulls, painted the decks, or completed any structural repairs

I have replaced the diesel with as new outboard and bracket, replaced the old mainsail with a new one, replaced the topping lift and mainsheet, added solar, replaced the autopilot 2X, painted the bottom 2X and topside Hull 1X plus painted the interior somewhat.

I'm still using the PO's main anchor (and old worn CQR), his dockline, and all the old electronics except fr one of the GPS Units that failed.

I'm about to pull the boat again for another bottom job (after 4 years on this one)and while it's out will probably paint the deck, add a new dodger and SS Frame, and maybe repaint the Topside hull. I'm also going to replace the outboard Bracket as my old one is totally worn out

This will cost around $4,000.
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Old 09-10-2018, 06:44   #26
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Re: What EXACTLY is a "blue water boat"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenomac View Post
Here’s what a “Blue Water Boat” can do more easily, with more comfort and less fatigue than a Coastal Cruiser” or “Weekender,”
The water is not really blue, isn't it?
Its more likely a grey water boat then.
And how can you tell, it's not a weekender? Do you know the owner and it's sailing habits?

I have seen a lot of those staying all year long on the dry and on the dock without a crew, perhaps they are tarmac cruisers / dock line holders?



Anyway, really nice center cockpit cruising vessel indeed!

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Old 09-10-2018, 06:55   #27
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Re: What EXACTLY is a "blue water boat"?

Also speaking of the old full keel cruising boats, guys are still using them to cross oceans and round capes.

There's a guy on CF that has practically sailed his Bristol 27 round the world and another guy that crossed the Atlantic and Rounded Cape Horn on his.
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Old 09-10-2018, 06:59   #28
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Re: What EXACTLY is a "blue water boat"?

For most boats, if they have a good stability by design, it is more to be in blue water condition than to be a blue water boat.

That means or that the boat is pretty new or that all important safety boats elements were verified or substituted, starting by the mast, rigging, rudder, keel, boat structure, through the hull and seacocks, electrical parts, engine, sails, means to produce electricity and so on.

Putting an old boat on bluewater condition may well be an expensive affair unless you have the luck to find someone that keeps an old boat in bluewater condition and that is pretty rare since it is expensive.

With age a boat needs more and more parts to be changed to remain in bluewater condition while if it is used on coastal conditions that is not really needed since help will be near and the chances are that if something goes wrong one still can make it to port.
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Old 09-10-2018, 07:06   #29
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Re: What EXACTLY is a "blue water boat"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CatNewBee View Post
The water is not really blue, isn't it?
Its more likely a grey water boat then.
And how can you tell, it's not a weekender? Do you know the owner and it's sailing habits?

I have seen a lot of those staying all year long on the dry and on the dock without a crew, perhaps they are tarmac cruisers / dock line holders?



Anyway, really nice center cockpit cruising vessel indeed!
I know the owner.
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Old 09-10-2018, 09:14   #30
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Re: What EXACTLY is a "blue water boat"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CatNewBee View Post
I've got a question in my mind when reading this:

Can a Tequila Sunrise be a Sundowner?
Sure, if it's big enough
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