What size and type batteries do I need for a crossing.

[stormalong]

I see some discussion about battery chargers but nothing about alternator and alternator regulators. On a long passage it is important to get a good charge with as little engine run time as possible. Guessing that you do not have a generator you want to have a high output alternator and a regulator to drive it properly.

Also, presuming you plan to go down to the Canaries and then across to the Caribbean your autopilot will be working very hard. That is usually a downwind roller coaster ride which will mean a lot of autopilot activity.

On the battery topic, I have six Trojan T-105s under my berth and have had no problems with that location. They are also next to the engine and on long motor runs they can get quite warm - not a good thing. What I like about flooded lead acid batteries is that the can take a lot of abuse that sealed type batteries cannot handle. They do need to be topped off with distilled water from time to time. The set of Trojans that I replaced last spring were ten years old and had a lot of ocean passage miles on them.

One thing about batteries is depth of discharge. The less deeply you discharge them the longer they last. As much solar and wind generation that you have the better. Another great source of power is a drag prop generator or something like a Duogen. I used a drag prop generator for the last several years of cruising. It produced eight plus amps at eight knots. That coupled with wind and solar gave me plenty of power for autopilot, refrigeration and all the electronic goodies. Together they totally eliminated engine running on ocean passages. The one downside of a drag prop generator is no fishing possible.

[TrentePieds]

Ah, yis — and while we are reviving the venerable Royal Navy tradition of making signals through reference to KJV: Luke 18:11

Cheers

TP

[sebathon]

Originally Posted by Pete7

The boat has a wind vane, so unlikely to need the auto pilot.

Batteries under the berth as they are now, is very common including ours. If a concern you could always drill some holes in the side.



What make and model charger?, oh and is this the solar controller or mains driven charger? Does the Wind go through the solar controller or separate controller. They will all need to be adjusted.

What is the highest alternator voltage you see?



Pete

Ok thank you all for the very informative responses. The wealth of information is very helpful.

Clearly the most common opinion is to stay with the more available and user friendly option of FLA so I guess I have been swayed in to choosing this option. As mentioned I can improve the ventilation by drilling some vents into the the side which can vent into the stern tube area which has a exhaust fan.

A few also mentioned it’s better for the space provided to use 6v in series and this seems possible except for a couple of problems.

The most mentioned Trojan t125 and 105 are both 28cm tall and the space only allows for 25cm. They are super high capacity Ah for the size. Are all the 6v batteries about these dims?

Thanks again to all.

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by Uncle Bob

You really need to study the history of that event, from the beginning to your glorious end.

Indeed and whilst I am sure the US contributions including sadly the loss of many lives is greatly appreciated by Europe and the Far East, it was the Russians that brought the Nazi era to an end.

Anyway back to the subject in hand after the above bit of irony.

Pete

[cal40john]

Originally Posted by chowdan

May have missed your post stating your budget, but in the USA(unsure about portugal), you can get Group 31 Firefly carbon foam batteries for $512/each. They have somewhere around 1000 cycles @ 80% DOD or 3600 cycles @ 50% DOD.

They should be a drop in replacement for your FLA, are fully sealed & have better sulfation resistance than AGM/GEL's.

Worth looking into

I see the OP has decided to go with FLA, but with regards to Firefly I came across this thread linked below not too long ago about quality issues with Firefly. I don't know how widespread or if the issue is resolved.

https://www.panbo.com/marineelectron...ttery-quality/

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by sam_hawk

The most mentioned Trojan t125 and 105 are both 28cm tall and the space only allows for 25cm. They are super high capacity Ah for the size. Are all the 6v batteries about these dims?

Thanks again to all.

Pretty much so and I have the same problem with under berth batteries, I can only get 12v batteries in the space not the taller generic golf cart type like T105. The 12v FLA equivalent from the likes of Trojan are 700 cycles compared to the 1700 for the T105, which shows why the taller golf cart batteries are so popular.

Gel might be a solution, the Victron 220AH have 1200 cycles if you don't discharge below 60% state of charge (SOC) and accept a lower charging voltage, so slower to charge up. However, would work well with solar and wind charging systems. There are Victron Dealers Batt EU with links to Portugal and SPain on their website.

Alternatively Leoch have Portuguese and Spanish dealers who may be able to supply these which have 2000 cycles if Alpha Batteries can't ship. 4 batteries should fit if the white object in the photo could be moved.

https://www.alpha-batteries.co.uk/12...isure-battery/

[john61ct]

Originally Posted by cal40john

I see the OP has decided to go with FLA, but with regards to Firefly I came across this thread linked below not too long ago about quality issues with Firefly. I don't know how widespread or if the issue is resolved.



https://www.panbo.com/marineelectron...ttery-quality/

Yes, there were some issues during the transition of production to India, but those were resolved.

As long as you buy through Bruce Schwab @ Ocean Planet's distribution network, you'll be well taken care of.

Not only diligent QA inspection / testing, but excellent warranty handling if anything slips through.

Buying via a direct company rep, importing yourself from the HQ in India, I can't vouch for that.

[john61ct]

Some go with AGM specifically because they can be installed on their side.

Might need to replace in 8 years rather than 12, but may be worth it rather than raising the berth platform.

Or keep looking for FLA available in Portugal that are those few cm shorter

[noelex 77]

If away from shore power for long periods, battery capacity and chemistry is less important than energy production and usage. Batteries do not produce power, they only store power.

Your energy production must be on average slightly higher than your energy usage.

If your energy usage numbers are correct (and the fridge number relates to average consumption) you are using over 300 Ahrs a day when sailing and using the autopilot. On a downwind passage the average production of your Silentwind generator and 400w of solar is unlikely to meet this demand.

The balance between energy production and usage needs to be addressed. Even a large lithium bank is of little benefit on a long passage if energy consumption is higher than energy usage.

[sebathon]

Originally Posted by noelex 77

If away from shore power for long periods, battery capacity and chemistry is less important than energy production and usage. Batteries do not produce power, they only store power.



Your energy production must be on average slightly higher than your energy usage.



If your energy usage numbers are correct (and the fridge number relates to average consumption) you are using over 300 Ahrs a day when sailing and using the autopilot. On a downwind passage the average production of your Silentwind generator and 400w of solar is unlikely to meet this demand.



The balance between energy production and usage needs to be addressed. Even a large lithium bank is of little benefit on a long passage if energy consumption is higher than energy usage.

Yes this is true for sure, if the wind is to far aft of the beam I expect not a lot for the silentwind of the wind speed is less then 25kn. Although I do expect the hydrovane to takeover and reduce consumption in these conditions.

Hopefully the 400 ish W of solar to do some work during the day to replenish the Charge as we really have the fridge, instruments and charging an iPad as the only other real requirements for the crossing.

[john61ct]

There may well be ways to reduce your consumption, investing in that will pay off much faster than increasing your inputs.

[sebathon]

Originally Posted by Pete7

Pretty much so and I have the same problem with under berth batteries, I can only get 12v batteries in the space not the taller generic golf cart type like T105. The 12v FLA equivalent from the likes of Trojan are 700 cycles compared to the 1700 for the T105, which shows why the taller golf cart batteries are so popular.



Gel might be a solution, the Victron 220AH have 1200 cycles if you don't discharge below 60% state of charge (SOC) and accept a lower charging voltage, so slower to charge up. However, would work well with solar and wind charging systems. There are Victron Dealers Batt EU with links to Portugal and SPain on their website.



Alternatively Leoch have Portuguese and Spanish dealers who may be able to supply these which have 2000 cycles if Alpha Batteries can't ship. 4 batteries should fit if the white object in the photo could be moved.



https://www.alpha-batteries.co.uk/12...isure-battery/

That’s very unfortunate as I would love to have the Trojans after seeing the specs, but I don’t wanna re-locate or raise the bunk.

The victron 220 are just to wide to fit the two in the space provided.

I have found the Leoch range on alpha and they do ship to Portugal. Also they will fit in the space but they are AGM which a few people had advised against? Although the charge cycles is massive. Will they also require a beefed up charger?

Leoch also have reasonably priced Gel 205ah and two will fit in the available space but not sure what the quality will be like.

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by sam_hawk

Will they also require a beefed up charger?

Leoch also have reasonably priced Gel 205ah and two will fit in the available space but not sure what the quality will be like.

Sam, can you confirm what you mean by "charger" is this the solar/wind controller or mains?

Leoch are a huge Chinese manufacturer but I have no personal experience of their batteries. The ones I linked to are new and I picked up on them from a You Tube video by "Cruising the Cut". Wish I had seen it before buying 12V Trjan FLA. Next time round.

Pete

[sebathon]

Originally Posted by Pete7

Sam, can you confirm what you mean by "charger" is this the solar/wind controller or mains?



Leoch are a huge Chinese manufacturer but I have no personal experience of their batteries. The ones I linked to are new and I picked up on them from a You Tube video by "Cruising the Cut". Wish I had seen it before buying 12V Trjan FLA. Next time round.



Pete

I mean mains charger. The old Dolphin 40 amp “dumb” charger with no settings for gel.

[chowdan]

Yes I also heard about quality issues. I just installed 3 2 or so months ago and am very happy. It seems like they all have been resolved and production is starting to ramp.

I dont know about buying direct either. I purchased through fisheries supply as they are local for me and have excellent service.

As for FLA, I have seen one 8D burst open and that was enough for me to say no FLA allowed onboard my boat.

Originally Posted by john61ct

Yes, there were some issues during the transition of production to India, but those were resolved.

As long as you buy through Bruce Schwab @ Ocean Planet's distribution network, you'll be well taken care of.

Not only diligent QA inspection / testing, but excellent warranty handling if anything slips through.

Buying via a direct company rep, importing yourself from the HQ in India, I can't vouch for that.