What count as a cycle (battery life)

[john61ct]

So much depends on the local market factors.

Wally's = Walmart, popular source for cheap batts fraudulently labeled as deep cycling.

The top-notch Deka GCs, many say as good as the pricier T-105s, are actually just as inexpensive here per AH as those frauds, why it's a no-brainer to get true deep cycling.

If the frauds were a lot cheaper, then more use cases would make sense, use up in a couple seasons then replace.

[john61ct]

>> Protective BMS gadgetry, simpler but along the same lines as with LFP can help protect our gear from our brain farts.

Also from gear failure. I just mean OVD protection, and an over temp alarm, not expensive, in fact built in to many BMs.

Ensuring lowering to Float at the right point is a issue needing solving for all lead.

My point is for those who want to invest in an expensive bank so their replacement will be as infrequent as possible, and are concerned about GELs sensitivity to heat and over voltage.

Those who say just get the cheapest true deep cycling, of course that's a valid choice too.

[antoha]

I think for people refusing to switch from say group 27 or 31 to GC, the main reason is the form factor. For example my battery compartment fits exactly 3 group 27s, with very little room around - and hardly any additional vertical clearance. They are under the floorboards in the salon. I really wish I had the space for 4 GCs, I would not care for anything else. But relocating the batteries would be such a major project, plus I’m not even sure where they would go on my boat.

[john61ct]

The choice between cheap-not-really deep-cycle vs pricier true-deep-cycle choice is a separate issue, same pro's and con's regardless of the form factor restrictions.

Being limited to 12V automotive sizes just means the up-front cost is a bit higher to get true deep cycle, and buyers are more easily fooled by the fraudulent labels in big box retail.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by antoha

I think for people refusing to switch from say group 27 or 31 to GC, the main reason is the form factor. For example my battery compartment fits exactly 3 group 27s, with very little room around - and hardly any additional vertical clearance. They are under the floorboards in the salon. I really wish I had the space for 4 GCs, I would not care for anything else. But relocating the batteries would be such a major project, plus I’m not even sure where they would go on my boat.

Attachment 170957

Yes, that's also my problem.

I have the space, but I would need to have two new battery boxes built, which would be really costly.

Mounting issues is also what drive many people to use AGM's. We used 8D AGM's on our last boat simply because there was no accessible space for batteries ANYWHERE. They could only be mounted on their sides and in a place where you could never get to them for maintenance. So we had no choice there, either.

We actually had pretty good luck with the Lifeline AGMs, although this type of battery has no advantage for cruisers as far as I can tell, unless you can use somehow the higher acceptance rate (with no generator and a dinghy 12v alternator, we had no use for this higher acceptance rate). They are more vulnerable to degradation by not bringing to 100% often, and can't be equalized. And to boot they are double the cost. We only used them because we had no other choice. We had solar, though, which kept them in good shape, and they lasted a long time, still going strong at 7 or 8 years old when we sold the boat.

[a64pilot]

The Lifeline battery, can and SHOULD be equalized.
Other AGM batteries maybe not.

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by john61ct

Yes, like I said, way too short to know for sure.

In another 15-20 they may have the grassroots credibility of Odyssey etc.

So you shouldn't use a product on a boat till it has a 20 year record. That's ridiculous. Of course if it has a nice long history you can become an.expert on it by searching Google and thengine pontificate your summary.

Some say they outsource to Full River, I dunno.

So are you trying to say Rolls Surrette AGM batteries aren't manufactured by Surrette? Got any support from your web search?

Some are happy to just trust the company, fantastic rep based on their FLA.

Some have used the product for many years while full time cruising.

[john61ct]

Let me know if you get updated information on who makes Rolls' AGMs.

AFAIK Full River is a quality maker, and of course any relabeling customer can set QA specs much higher than those used for their own-brand line.

None of which has anything to do with the quality standard end result.

Batteries take longer to accumulate widespread credible data than other product types when the goal is over a decade of longevity.

Of course anyone is welcome to choose to test them themselves on their boat in the meantime, and I hope will post the results in the years to come.

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by john61ct

Let me know if you get updated information on who makes Rolls' AGMs.
...

You made the claim, multiple times, why don't you support it with something beside your opinion.

[john61ct]

The more extraordinary claim without evidence is that they built a whole new production facility just to make the new AGM line themselves.

Would IMO be a foolhardy business decision the way things are these days.

I'd be very happy to be proven wrong, got no dog in this hunt.

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by john61ct

The more extraordinary claim without evidence is that they built a whole new production facility just to make the new AGM line themselves.

Would IMO be a foolhardy business decision the way things are these days.

I'd be very happy to be proven wrong, got no dog in this hunt.

So do you have any facts to back up your claim or not? And if you don't, why keep making the claim?

[goat]

I'm happy with my GC Trojans, but the Fireflies have me intrigued. Have they stumbled onto a new battery technology? Nobody can use it legally? Why aren't the Chinese reverse engineering the hell out of them like they do with anything else? Are they expensive because of how they're built or because of lack of production? Inquiring goats want to know......

[john61ct]

Originally Posted by Paul L

So do you have any facts to back up your claim or not? And if you don't, why keep making the claim?

It appears you have a problem with reading comprehension, I can't be more clear than my last few posts on the topic.

You are the one that is making a claim that needs to be supported by some evidence.

I am simply speculating based on hearsay, and look forward - if it is false - to that being proven wrong.

[john61ct]

Originally Posted by goat

Fireflies have me intrigued. Have they stumbled onto a new battery technology? Nobody can use it legally? Why aren't the Chinese reverse engineering the hell out of them like they do with anything else?

Their technology was very intentionally invented, by Kurtis Kelley, I believe while working at Caterpillar. He now lives in Maine.

The proportion of the market that is even aware of the PSOC problem they solve is .000X%, and LFP - dominated already by the Chinese solves it better.

The IP is now owned by the Indian parent company, which is still in the process of ramping up its production / QA volume capacity.

Only volume distribution will bring pricing down.

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by john61ct

It appears you have a problem with reading comprehension, I can't be more clear than my last few posts on the topic.

You are the one that is making a claim that needs to be supported by some evidence.

I am simply speculating based on hearsay, and look forward - if it is false - to that being proven wrong.

Ah, the old you can't read offensive. What claim have I made that you think I need to support? I have said I have owned numerous AGM batteries including a Rolls Surrette. I have said the Rolls batteries have been shipping for at least 7 years. I have asked you what support do you have for saying Rolls does not produce their AGMs. Can you at least point to the hearsay?