Are there true advantages to sta-loc standing rigging?

[Tatheelrod22]

I'll be looking at a boat this weekend that the owner posted the below regarding the way he replaced the rigging recently. I've read a bit in the past about moving up a size in rigging and that sometimes the extra strength doesn't always offset the increased weight and windage? Also is this an accurate portrayal of how simple it is to replace a shroud or stay if you have stay loc fittings? I'm sure there will be a few different "schools of thought here" and I look forward to seeing them. His cut/pasted verbiage was:

"The original specs for the rig called for most 1/4 inch shrouds and stays, we went bigger and standardized it to 9/32 with StaLoc end fitting top and bottom...means you can replace a wire anywhere with a hacksaw and two wrenches."

[sailorboy1]

the extra weight and windage for an adder 1/32" diameter increase in standing rigging is like being worried about whether that splat of bird poop on the spreader is having an effect on the boats performance.

far as I'm concerned changing to the 9/32" and StaLoc was nothing but a plus

[rbk]

^^x2. Big bonus

[JPA Cate]

Originally Posted by Tatheelrod22

I'll be looking at a boat this weekend that the owner posted the below regarding the way he replaced the rigging recently. I've read a bit in the past about moving up a size in rigging and that sometimes the extra strength doesn't always offset the increased weight and windage? Also is this an accurate portrayal of how simple it is to replace a shroud or stay if you have stay loc fittings? I'm sure there will be a few different "schools of thought here" and I look forward to seeing them. His cut/pasted verbiage was:

"The original specs for the rig called for most 1/4 inch shrouds and stays, we went bigger and standardized it to 9/32 with StaLoc end fitting top and bottom...means you can replace a wire anywhere with a hacksaw and two wrenches."

Tatheelrod, it is sort of right, and also misleading. It is useful to have a vise to hold the fitting in, too. And, if it's a forestay, as it was for us, there's the question of where you can lay it out. We were able to float ours ashore our dinghy plus 3 kayaks, where we had permission to do it, without damaging the foil, and reassemble it all there when the new wire arrived. The point is really that you don't need a portable swaging machine, and nor, a rigger, if you already know how to tune your rig. Since he standardized all his wire to the same size, it means he could carry one long piece, and be able to cut it to the right length to replace the stay that had broken. He would not have to wait for replacement wire, like we did, just carry it somewhere aboard.

If you are going to parts unknown, in our case, the nearest rigger was 3 days' sail away, and we would have had to motor slowly. Being able to deal with it where we were was MUCH better. Yes, it takes in our case 2 crescent wrenches. We have wire cutters, but the hacksaw does work.

The real value is in the level of independence you retain....and the safety factor of not having to motor three days with a mast supported by halyards.

Ann

[Jim Cate]

I agree that the slight upsize in wire size will make no perceptible change in performance.

As a long term user of Sta-Lok and other mechanical terminals, I view them as both more reliable than swages and in the long run, more economical. Further, standardizing on one size wire means that you can buy in bulk if renewing the rig, and that you can carry one bit of spare wire as an emergency replacement source for any one wire on the boat. By this, I don't mean whilst under way (although that has been done by superhero type sailors), but ashore in some remote location. For instance, we replaced a broken headstay on the lawn at a resort on Aore Island in Vanuatu some years ago. No swaging equipment for hundreds of miles... boy, were we glad to have Sta-Loks on that boat!

Jim

PS I see that Ann was busy typing at the same time I was! Thankfully, we agreed about this subject! (doesn't always happen!)

[RaymondR]

Definitely stay with the Stayloks and going up a size on the wire did much more good than harm.

I had a couple of failures with the roll form terminals and found that on both occasions the failure point was down inside the terminal where it could not be inspected. The multi strand wire is crushed into a solid bar over a distance of one or two millimeters. This creates very high stresses and the individual wires crack and break at this point. The rest of the wire is still sound.

[roverhi]

There is no need to go up in wire size if the designer had some idea of what they were doing. Going larger doesn't give you any more safety factor as the wire is almost never the cause of rigging failure. The swages, chainplates, turn buckles, and mast fitting are the weak points in rigs. Wire strands can break at the swages but going larger won't help a lot as that is a work hardening issue caused by the wire bending at the swage. Adding the extra weight of the larger wire won't make or break a boat but will add weight up high that will increase heeling moment and rolling. Why do it when it doesn't add anything. FWIW, Yves Gelinas of Cape Horn Self Steering fame suffered a knock down/roll in the southern ocean on his solo round the world voyage. He lost the stick not because the wire failed but a chainplate.

I don't trust swages. Saw a destruction test of scrapped wire from a boatyard. The appearance of the swages wasn't a reliable determinant of the strength. Some swages with obvious cracks that looked terrible exceeded the breaking strength of the wire while one's that looked perfect failed way below rated strength. That's something that hasn't been a problem with the mechanical fasteners, StaLok and Norsemans, plus there is the added bonus that you can reuse them with new wire when the time comes. The Norseman and StaLoks that I used on my Westsail back in '75 are still on the boat but going on their 3rd set of wire. They also can be disassembled and inspected for added safety.

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by Tatheelrod22

I'll be looking at a boat this weekend that the owner posted the below regarding the way he replaced the rigging recently. I've read a bit in the past about moving up a size in rigging and that sometimes the extra strength doesn't always offset the increased weight and windage? Also is this an accurate portrayal of how simple it is to replace a shroud or stay if you have stay loc fittings? I'm sure there will be a few different "schools of thought here" and I look forward to seeing them. His cut/pasted verbiage was:

"The original specs for the rig called for most 1/4 inch shrouds and stays, we went bigger and standardized it to 9/32 with StaLoc end fitting top and bottom...means you can replace a wire anywhere with a hacksaw and two wrenches."

You should also replace the internal wedge part on swageless terminals.

Getting them apart can take some doing too. I needed to apply heat to get mine apart.

[AiniA]

Originally Posted by roverhi

There is no need to go up in wire size if the designer had some idea of what they were doing. Going larger doesn't give you any more safety factor as the wire is almost never the cause of rigging failure. The swages, chainplates, turn buckles, and mast fitting are the weak points in rigs. Wire strands can break at the swages but going larger won't help a lot as that is a work hardening issue caused by the wire bending at the swage. Adding the extra weight of the larger wire won't make or break a boat but will add weight up high that will increase heeling moment and rolling. Why do it when it doesn't add anything. FWIW, Yves Gelinas of Cape Horn Self Steering fame suffered a knock down/roll in the southern ocean on his solo round the world voyage. He lost the stick not because the wire failed but a chainplate.

I don't trust swages. Saw a destruction test of scrapped wire from a boatyard. The appearance of the swages wasn't a reliable determinant of the strength. Some swages with obvious cracks that looked terrible exceeded the breaking strength of the wire while one's that looked perfect failed way below rated strength. That's something that hasn't been a problem with the mechanical fasteners, StaLok and Norsemans, plus there is the added bonus that you can reuse them with new wire when the time comes. The Norseman and StaLoks that I used on my Westsail back in '75 are still on the boat but going on their 3rd set of wire. They also can be disassembled and inspected for added safety.

Standing rigging does fail. On our rtw we had two aft lowers go at various times (the wire was all new when we started). The rigger in Cape Town recommended upsized wire for the aft lowers as he said they often go on boats making very long, windy trade wind passages like those to SA across the Indian. No problems after the upgrade but we only sailed about 7,000 nm with the new ones. Mechanical fittings are good and there are now a few new ones. We used Hayn Hi-Mod and they were pretty easy to put on, after you had done a couple. Correct we if I am wrong but I thought Norseman were no longer with us.

[robert sailor]

Swageless terminals are great products. Wire a size up is ok but as others have said it’s most often the connections that fail so extra points for swaglesse terminals as they very seldom fail.

[Paul L]

I'm not really a fan of mechanical fittings. For most cruisers the additional initial cost will not get paid back. Swages are cheap, both the initial one and when the wire is changed. With the ease of carrying long dyneema you have a god way to make up a temporary stay. Cruising boats go many years between rerigs, maybe 6 to 15 years.
I rerigged a few years ago. The fact the boat was initially setup with Norsemen fitting made the rerig more difficult, not less. Sourcing cones for Norsemens is a real pain. In places I couldn't source cones or reuse cones I used swages.

[Jim Cate]

Paul, FWIW Tylaska has replacement cones for Norseman fittings now. Not cheap, but better quality than the originals to my eyes, and they ship to Oz!

Jim

[Don C L]

I went up on mine to 9/32 but my boat is a bit bigger and heavier, it's a fair bit of overkill for yours. BTW Hi-MOD is another brand of connector. I've read lots of good things about them too, but haven't seen 'em. I have a couple of old Norsemen's my rigger still had when he put on my headstay. I do not worry not a jot, whit or tittle about those connections.

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Paul, FWIW Tylaska has replacement cones for Norseman fittings now. Not cheap, but better quality than the originals to my eyes, and they ship to Oz!
Jim

Indeed.
➥ https://www.tylaska.com/product/norseman-gibb/

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[a64pilot]

I looked into it briefly when I had my boat re-riffed and decided against going with Sta-locs.
Reasoning was cost, I was having the original rigging replaced that was 30 yrs old at the time and still inspected OK.
I’m 60 now, probability is that I won’t still be sailing and indeed the boat may not still be around when the rigging needs replacing again.
Although I did go with Titanium for my chain plates where SS would most likely also have outlasted me, but the Titanium wasn’t as expensive by comparison.

If the boat has had Sta-locs I’d certainly have stayed with them.
My advice is if you have a boat that does, be sure to purchase and carry with you any pieces parts you may ever need, cause I have a suspicion that mechanical fittings are going away.