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Old 07-05-2019, 18:08   #61
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Re: Are there true advantages to sta-loc standing rigging?

The original question was to go oversize in the standing rigging. I am sure the original designer would have calculated stuff properly, and if not, there would be internet chatter about breaking rigs on the type of your particular boat. If not, then stay with the original size, unless you use the boat for different kind of sailing it was designed for.
The other route you could take is (as per post #47) to go from 1x19 to a Dyform or CS (compact strand) construction, 10-15 % stronger with the same diameter, slightly heavier though. See this link: https://www.arcuswire.com/product/dyform-37

Regarding compression fittings, there are to my knowledge currently only 2 manufacturers: Stalok and Hayn (with Hi-Mod fittings). Norseman used to be in this market, not anymore. Many advantages have been mentioned above, I will list them here:
- One can replace the entire standing rigging with 2 spanners, a hacksaw, measuring tape and some electrical tape, plus or minus some silicone but that is another story , all do-it-yourself, no need for a rigger, particularly if one can measure tension of the rigging
- One can do repairs in remote locations, without access to services, that is if one carries some spare wire, ie at least one wire as your longest stay/shroud
- If one has to, or wants to ???? one can check the internals of the swages, hmmm at times hard to undo!!
- I don't know of any compression fitting failure, but I have seen a dozen or so swage failures

Not mentioned before, having compression fittings but maybe not Norseman, will help with the eventual sale of one’s boat. Maybe these fittings do not increase the re-sell value, but it will help sell the boat quicker as it stands out from other boats, with all other things being equal.

The only disadvantage that I can see (and it has been mentioned many times) is the initial price. On price alone, buying such fittings may only become economic when one keeps the boat for 15 or 25 years (ie with 1 or 2 wire changes). BTW, has anyone done really a $$ comparison for Stalock (or Hi-Mod) versus rolled swaged rigging?

Describing my bias here: In the past I have used Stalok and Norseman compression fittings on many (not mine) boats as an one-off (mainly on furlers). On my current boat I have all Stalok (top and bottom), and yes, I have spare cones and fittings… just in case. I will carry some spare wire (just purchased half a roll). Hmmm a roll of wire would make good ballast…. if only there was spare room in the bilge And the wire I just purchased is Compact Strand.
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Old 07-05-2019, 18:48   #62
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Re: Are there true advantages to sta-loc standing rigging?

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Regarding compression fittings, there are to my knowledge currently only 2 manufacturers: Stalok and Hayn (with Hi-Mod fittings).
Sea Rig in New Zealand is another major supplier of mechanical terminals, and I believe there are several others of lesser size.

And once again, Norseman cones are now available from Tylaska.

Jim
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Old 07-05-2019, 18:52   #63
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Re: Are there true advantages to sta-loc standing rigging?

Thank you Jim, I am learning all the time!
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Old 07-05-2019, 19:33   #64
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Re: Are there true advantages to sta-loc standing rigging?

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Agreed that the Dyneema is great for jury rigs... but in our case, we didn't want a jury rig, we wanted to replace the working rig with like. And since it was a forestay with a furler, wire was a better choice for us. And, we didn't carry the wire on board at that time, but it was pretty easy to get bulk wire shipped in, even to Luganville. Having the mechanical terminals meant that we could assemble the new stay in situ, hundreds of miles from the nearest rigger and swage machine and then carry on with our cruising.

Jim
Not knocking the advantage of mechanical terminals, but the need to rerig the entire boat in a remote location is not high on my list for them. A complete rerig is rare and usually planned for a location where parts and service are easy. We waited to rerig till we got to New Zealand. Perhaps a few years early, but a good place to get quality work done at a good price.
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Old 07-05-2019, 20:37   #65
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Re: Are there true advantages to sta-loc standing rigging?

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Not knocking the advantage of mechanical terminals, but the need to rerig the entire boat in a remote location is not high on my list for them. A complete rerig is rare and usually planned for a location where parts and service are easy. We waited to rerig till we got to New Zealand. Perhaps a few years early, but a good place to get quality work done at a good price.
Perhaps I wasn't clear, Paul. We broke our forestay near Luganville in Vanuatu. We managed to get the sail off the furler on board, and then floated the stay and furler ashore where we eventually replaced the wire and then reinstalled the furler and stay on board... and continued cruising with a non-jury rigged boat. We did not renew any other parts at t hat time.

Had we only been able to jury rig, our cruising would have been stopped until better repairs could be made. At that time there was no swaging service available in Vanuatu... nearest place would have been Noumea. I was pretty glad to have the Sta-Loks on that stay!

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Old 08-05-2019, 02:57   #66
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Re: Are there true advantages to sta-loc standing rigging?

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A 60ft run of dyneema line could also be used for the jury rig and be easier to store as well as have other possible uses.
Carrying a gibb fitting like below can make it easy and quick to install a dyneema stay. Also having a pulley or Frictionless ring system ready to go allowing tension to be applied immediately. A damaged or broken stay can be replaced quickly with as much strength of the original.

All much easy to carry as well.
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Old 08-05-2019, 07:33   #67
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Re: Are there true advantages to sta-loc standing rigging?

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Perhaps I wasn't clear, Paul. We broke our forestay near Luganville in Vanuatu. We managed to get the sail off the furler on board, and then floated the stay and furler ashore where we eventually replaced the wire and then reinstalled the furler and stay on board... and continued cruising with a non-jury rigged boat. We did not renew any other parts at t hat time.

Had we only been able to jury rig, our cruising would have been stopped until better repairs could be made. At that time there was no swaging service available in Vanuatu... nearest place would have been Noumea. I was pretty glad to have the Sta-Loks on that stay!

Jim
I misunderstood your post, it sounded like a full rerig.
If you have to order wire shipped in, you could order wire with swaged fittings shipped.

Mechanical fittings are nice. They are DIY, strong, last a long time. If you are rigging your boat and plan to keep and cruise it for 15 years, then the initial extra expense seems justified. That's assuming 15 years is 1.5 rerigs (ie 1 rerif plus use it for half its life).

In my last rerig I ended up with the worst of owning mechanical fittings. They were Norsemen put on in 2003. When rerigging cones were not available. This was after Navtec dumped them and before Tylska started offering some cone sizes. I now have a rig with a mix of Norsemen, Swage and one Stalok. Where I couldn't reuse my Norsemens I went swage.
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Old 08-05-2019, 08:36   #68
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Re: Are there true advantages to sta-loc standing rigging?

We lost a shroud four days out of Trinidad on a transat. Replaced it with a length of Dyneema and kept on sailing to Trinidad. Needed to be tightened up a bit for the first day but after that it held just fine in average trade wind conditions.

After that I carried a length of Dyneema on my own boat together with what I would need to attach and tension it. Easier to find a place to store than wire would be.
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Old 08-05-2019, 15:02   #69
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Re: Are there true advantages to sta-loc standing rigging?

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I misunderstood your post, it sounded like a full rerig.
If you have to order wire shipped in, you could order wire with swaged fittings shipped. If you have to do this, remember what you're using is already stretched. Hope you have enough room in your turnbuckles to adjust again when the new stuff stretches.

Mechanical fittings are nice. They are DIY, strong, last a long time. If you are rigging your boat and plan to keep and cruise it for 15 years, then the initial extra expense seems justified. That's assuming 15 years is 1.5 rerigs (ie 1 rerif plus use it for half its life).

In my last rerig I ended up with the worst of owning mechanical fittings. They were Norsemen put on in 2003. When rerigging cones were not available. This was after Navtec dumped them and before Tylska started offering some cone sizes. I now have a rig with a mix of Norsemen, Swage and one Stalok. Where I couldn't reuse my Norsemens I went swage.
I have to agree that the non-availability with the Norsemen fittings was awful. I bet some cones were re-used during that time. There also were, for a while, some counterfeit Norsemen sold, which were not of reliable quality. Sorry about your rig, what a hassle.

Ann
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Old 08-05-2019, 17:09   #70
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Re: Are there true advantages to sta-loc standing rigging?

Quote:
I misunderstood your post, it sounded like a full rerig.
If you have to order wire shipped in, you could order wire with swaged fittings shipped.
The problem with that is the furler requires a bare wire to be threaded through the foil and bearings, and the terminal attached after that is accomplished... to say nothing of getting the length exactly right via long distance communications from a third world country in the 1990's!

BTW, I like the idea of the t-ball to dyneema fitting shown upthread. I might just get a couple of those in appropriate sizes!

Jim
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Old 08-05-2019, 18:22   #71
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Re: Are there true advantages to sta-loc standing rigging?

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I have to agree that the non-availability with the Norsemen fittings was awful. I bet some cones were re-used during that time. There also were, for a while, some counterfeit Norsemen sold, which were not of reliable quality. Sorry about your rig, what a hassle.

Ann
This is getting to be more and more of a problem. Perfectly good equipment having to be replace, often by inferior, because of lack of spares.

I carried around a wire with a swage fitting on one end and a Stayloc taped to it under the V berth for about 20 years on my old boat and never used it. A length of Dyneema sounds like a better idea.
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