Are there true advantages to sta-loc standing rigging?

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Paul, FWIW Tylaska has replacement cones for Norseman fittings now. Not cheap, but better quality than the originals to my eyes, and they ship to Oz!

Jim

With a little luck I won't be needing them for another 6 to 10 years.

[roland stockham]

Also worth carry a length of chain. Problems usually occur at the lower end of a stay. With mechanical fittings you can simply cut out the damage, refit the end and add a chain to make up the length. Definitely can be done at sea and without climbing the mast!

[Cheechako]

I dont see any issue with it, it used to be pretty common many years ago. Big advantage? I doubt it. But depends on the whole system, and what the weak "link in the chain" is. Sta Loks are a plus though!

[Dougtiff]

Going up to a larger size wire can be a problem, depending on how much larger you go, the problem arises because the larger wire must be tensioned higher, and this puts more load on the mast, that may not be designed for it.

[sailingchiro]

The forestay!
I purchased a boat without a mast. Or actually the mast was in two pieces on the deck in a crumpled mess. When we had the new mast built, everyone was worried about the forestay and kept asking me the length. Me being ignorant, didn't know. We did a sta-lock on the forestay in order to cut to length once the mast was in place. If we didn't, I don't know how we would have known the forestay length. The rigger's shop was about 5 hours away.

Like many have said, sta-locks allow an owner less down time if something should fail. Carrying a roll of extra cable is an excellent idea with extra cones.

[letsgetsailing3]

Originally Posted by roland stockham

Also worth carry a length of chain. Problems usually occur at the lower end of a stay. With mechanical fittings you can simply cut out the damage, refit the end and add a chain to make up the length. Definitely can be done at sea and without climbing the mast!

What kind of chain?

[roverhi]

According to Defender Marine I should be able to rig my 35' boat with 9/32" wire and StaLok Terminals for $1300. Not a great expense when it comes to boat stuff. Of course you'd have to provide the labor but I rigged our Westsail 32 in a little over a day and they have twice the number of terminals as a standard sloop. If that is more expensive than swaged wire I'd consider it money well spent for peace of mind.

Think NavTec, the provider of Norseman terminals, went belly up recently. Tylaska has started supplying the cones so no problem with changing out old wire. Think I'd buy new cones from them just in case they lose interest in stocking them. Don't think there is much worry for StaLok or Hayn to quit making mechanical terminals as long as they stay in business.

AiniA, did the wire fail on your boat or the swages?? Have had wire strands break at the terminal or swage but that was caused by work hardening from side loads on the headstay. All the lost rigs I'm familiar with were either swage, chainplate or mast hardware problems.

[CarinaPDX]

Another thumbs up for Sta-Lok. I had to re-rig in England; a trip to the rigging loft for a coil of wire and the cones, a day and it was done. The original rigging took me an afternoon. I bought a cable cutter for the job but the first time I tried to make a cut a jaw broke so I reverted to the hack saw. Hack saws make a much cleaner cut so the cable cutter is for emergencies only now. After the two rigs I am about even financially, and will be way ahead with the third. For me the big win is reliability; with swages they are only as good as the operator and the adjustment of the machine. Also, in the tropics swages have a higher failure rate.

When I first rigged Carina I assembled the mast from a kit, measured the location for all of the attachments on the mast and deck, then worked out the lengths with a little trigonometry - no need for trial and error.

Greg

[Don C L]

Yeah calculating the stretch on new wire and figuring that in, when you know the exact length is kind of a trick too. There’s a mathematical formula for it I bet, can’t remember now. I’ll have to ask my rigger, he put a head stay on my boat with NO turnbuckle and nailed the length. Pretty impressive.

[sailingchiro]

Don't know if it is the right way to cut the wire but I taped it up with electrical tape then cut with 4" cutoff wheel on my little grinder. Cut it in about 30 seconds and was very clean cut. Went around the edges to take off any burrs. Took the tape off, cleaned off the residue and splayed the wire per instructions of the Sta-lok. Assembled with 5200 and has been holding since. Total time was roughly 30minutes because it was my first time.
I must have remeasured 6-7 times on the dock at the marina.

[dkenny64]

pardon the test..the last several threads I've tried to reply too failed.
if this works.. just ignore


ok the test worked.


going up a size.. no problem.. its only a 1/32 inch.


sta-lock - I'm working on moving our boat to this. the forestay is done. the rest are coming.


-dkenny64

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat

You should also replace the internal wedge part on swageless terminals.

Getting them apart can take some doing too. I needed to apply heat to get mine apart.

True, its sometimes not as easy as implied and the internal cone should be replaced (easy enough to carry spares as they are small).

Another big advantage I think is you can do the final sizing & cutting of the wire in the field rather than hoping you and the rigging shop communicated correctly. Order the wire a bit long and cut to fit.

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by Dougtiff

Going up to a larger size wire can be a problem, depending on how much larger you go, the problem arises because the larger wire must be tensioned higher, and this puts more load on the mast, that may not be designed for it.

Trying to think this through. Why would larger wire need to be tensioned higher? A certain load is needed to keep the mast straight, it seems to me that smaller wire MAY need more tension actually, depending on what load is required.
Larger wire will stretch less under a shock load, so may be safer in an extreme situation. For most column failures, the inability to keep the slender column straight is what makes them fail.

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

Trying to think this through. Why would larger wire need to be tensioned higher?...

See the Loos Tension Calibration Tables.

HOW MUCH TENSION?
Specific tension requirements for your application must be obtained from the boat, mast, or sail manufacturer or the manufacturer of the product on which the cable is used.
Table 1 recommends an initial tension setting, but there is no simple solution since the optimum rigging tension will be a function of the boat design, the rig (masthead or fractional, one or more spreaders, etc.), and even the cut of the sails. Many skippers use insufficient tension because of a fear of "breaking something." It should be noted that on America's Cup contenders, where electronic state of the art tension instrumentation is available, the standing rigging is set as tight as is structurally feasible.
Loos Tension Calibration ➥ https://loosnaples.com/how-to-use-pt...tension-gauges

[a64pilot]

I’ve not read the tables, but assume they take into account that the size of cable closely matches the required rigging tension, and does not have a way to take into account of oversizing rigging?
I’m no sailing expert, far from it, but I wouldn’t think going to larger wire would change the tension requirements, they should stay the same, going larger wire just increases weight and strength.
I have been told by riggers that my boat as it’s built has oversized wire, and to not go bigger, some boats of course don’t, and I’d guess maybe you should?

I don’t think we can take much from racing, surely those are extremely close tolerance designs, built for very very short lifetimes.
I’ve raced cars and the thought there was the perfect designed car fell apart just after it crossed the finish line, surely boats are similar?