Watch Keeping Single Handing

[contrail]

Originally Posted by TabbyCat

Answer: personal experience meeting multiple single handers en-route from NZ to Fiji. (both directions). I figure if the last single hander we had the close encounter with had been awake, he surely would have adjusted his windvane, steered a straighter course and we would not have come so close. It was truly the most wacky course ever. It went something like this: As we closed, he veered to port. Okay, that's correct, so let's head a bit off to starboard. No wait, now he's heading back across our path and to starboard. Hmm, is he confused about the rules of the road? Well, OK, if he has changed his mind and is desperate to go the wrong way, we will let him do that. Let's tack. Oh wait, he's just now swung radically back to port. What the heck? We're getting kinda close... Oh wait, now that he's so close, we can see there is no one in the cockpit. - it must be a single-hander. And wow, it must be the self steering vane doing all that! Right let's turn on an engine, head way to starboard and get waaaaay outta his path. OK, now that we are a safe distance abeam and he has not answered the VHF, let's give him a call on the loud hailer and see if there is a problem. Perhaps someone is down below sick or injured? Surely no one could be just sleeping with that kind of crashing back and forth?. "Hello, sailing vessel x, this is sv TabbyCat". Repeat. Eventually up pops a sleepy head, looking around looking to see where all the racket is coming from. "Hey guys, sorry I did not hear my AIS alarm". Arrgh! My take away: CF isn't going to stop single handers from putting us in danger, so best to stay off the rhumb line and avoid them. And of course, continue to keep a vigilant eye out for them.

You are, no doubt, aware that many cruising couples BOTH go below to sleep? Don't be so sure they are singlehanders!

[barryglewis]

I enjoy Single handed passage making offshore, coastal not so much!
Will motor if need be to get away from coast and offering dangers quickly, and reluctant to sleep until clear.
Eg, Capetown to Sydney, motored and sailed SW to SSW until clear of shipping and Aquilas banks, then started sweeping round until heading E. This was a long time ago and there was a lot of shipping going around the Cape (1974-75). Still my longest SH. 2nd longest 2020 Ostia Italy to Jamaica with a stop at Agadir Morocco for a spare for the A/P

Only change made to Risky before first single handing her (2014 Opua NZ to Sydney) was raising the guard rails to about 850mm and putting a 1" pipe hand rail on all-round.
Sleep 1 to 2 hours at a time. Have AIS since 2015, great aid singlehanding and crewed.
With crew , mainly wife, we stand watches1

[owly]

Personally I'm kind of fed up with the condemnation and defense of single handing... That belongs on another thread, and strong feelings about it are getting in the way of real solutions.



Obviously AIS and radar can be real assets, and in this day and age not having AIS if you are single handing is pretty indefensible.


Statements such as "asleep is asleep" regardless of where you sleep, completely ignore the reality of human nature. A tired person who has to climb the companionway out into the cockpit where it is cold is far more likely to "hit the virtual snooze button", and roll over for a few more winks, than someone who is in a panoramic space such as some bridge deck cabins and pilot house boats, where it is merely a matter of sitting up, or standing up and scanning things, then falling back into sleep. It will be far easier to get back into useful sleep, the sailor will be far more rested with fewer intervals, and ultimately be safer both during his interrupted sleep cycle and when awake. Tired people make mistakes.

I have broken sleep as it is.... but I can get up in a warm house, have a looksee, a drink of water, etc, and fall almost instantly back to sleep. If on the other hand I had to walk out into the cold night and climb a ladder, then return to bed each time, it would be far more difficult to get well rested.



Lacking a bridge deck cabin / pod, or a pilot house, as is the case with most boats people single hand, it makes sense to me at least to look at ways to improve this. It is completely useless to say "just don't single hand". You will never argue someone out of doing it. Oscar is a good solution if you have an extra $10K burning a hole in your pocket. A pilot house is a nice option, but small sailboats simply do not have them. Roger Taylor built a structure on Ming Ming II for voyaging single handed in the arctic that allows him to sit in a swing seat and have a view all around. That would be a worthwhile addition I think....... At least he doesn't have to go out into arctic temps from his warm bed.


This is not a unique problem by any means, and a bit of constructive discussion seems to be mostly out of the question......All we are getting are arguments and nonsense, with very little constructive input.



Ming Ming II:

[GILow]

Originally Posted by owly

Personally I'm kind of fed up with the condemnation and defense of single handing... That belongs on another thread, and strong feelings about it are getting in the way of real solutions.



Obviously AIS and radar can be real assets, and in this day and age not having AIS if you are single handing is pretty indefensible.


Statements such as "asleep is asleep" regardless of where you sleep, completely ignore the reality of human nature. A tired person who has to climb the companionway out into the cockpit where it is cold is far more likely to "hit the virtual snooze button", and roll over for a few more winks, than someone who is in a panoramic space such as some bridge deck cabins and pilot house boats, where it is merely a matter of sitting up, or standing up and scanning things, then falling back into sleep. It will be far easier to get back into useful sleep, the sailor will be far more rested with fewer intervals, and ultimately be safer both during his interrupted sleep cycle and when awake. Tired people make mistakes.

I have broken sleep as it is.... but I can get up in a warm house, have a looksee, a drink of water, etc, and fall almost instantly back to sleep. If on the other hand I had to walk out into the cold night and climb a ladder, then return to bed each time, it would be far more difficult to get well rested.



Lacking a bridge deck cabin / pod, or a pilot house, as is the case with most boats people single hand, it makes sense to me at least to look at ways to improve this. It is completely useless to say "just don't single hand". You will never argue someone out of doing it. Oscar is a good solution if you have an extra $10K burning a hole in your pocket. A pilot house is a nice option, but small sailboats simply do not have them. Roger Taylor built a structure on Ming Ming II for voyaging single handed in the arctic that allows him to sit in a swing seat and have a view all around. That would be a worthwhile addition I think....... At least he doesn't have to go out into arctic temps from his warm bed.


This is not a unique problem by any means, and a bit of constructive discussion seems to be mostly out of the question......All we are getting are arguments and nonsense, with very little constructive input.



Ming Ming II:

Well, as they say, you get what you paid for.

[barryglewis]

My old man, David Lewis, after crossing the Atlantic and back for the first single handed Transatlantic race, fitted an airforce surplus oval dome to his cat Rehu Moana for the 2nd Transatlantic race in 1974.
He was happy enough with this, and for his next single handed trip (Icebird to Antarctic peninsula in 1972) he fitted a semi spherical dome in the companionway hatch. It survived 3 capsises, including the first which split a weld and bent in about 1 1/2" the cabin side . He found the dome useful! As did I when I brought her back to Sydney from Capetown. I was though always concerned in rough weather that my neck might get broken if she rolled, but I am an anxious person.
With Risky, we fitted a dodger with clears attached with velcro so they would break away if she took a wave, or capsized. This proved effective in 2018 when I inverted her a couple of hundred miles off Sydney. The clears pushed out but remained attached with a bits of string. Unfortunately the Velcro holding the dodger itself was too strong, and it ripped the Stitching!
Personal, I don't think I have ever not looked out after waking, whether from a catnap or a 2 hr sleep!
Also, religious about harnessing on when leaving the cabin. When the washboard are in there is always a harness tether brought in over the washboard , hook on before leaving the companionway!

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by barryglewis

My old man, David Lewis, after crossing the Atlantic and back for the first single handed Transatlantic race, fitted an airforce surplus oval dome to his cat Rehu Moana for the 2nd Transatlantic race in 1974.
He was happy enough with this, and for his next single handed trip (Icebird to Antarctic peninsula in 1972) he fitted a semi spherical dome in the companionway hatch. It survived 3 capsises, including the first which split a weld and bent in about 1 1/2" the cabin side . He found the dome useful! As did I when I brought her back to Sydney from Capetown. I was though always concerned in rough weather that my neck might get broken if she rolled, but I am an anxious person.
With Risky, we fitted a dodger with clears attached with velcro so they would break away if she took a wave, or capsized. This proved effective in 2018 when I inverted her a couple of hundred miles off Sydney. The clears pushed out but remained attached with a bits of string. Unfortunately the Velcro holding the dodger itself was too strong, and it ripped the Stitching!
Personal, I don't think I have ever not looked out after waking, whether from a catnap or a 2 hr sleep!
Also, religious about harnessing on when leaving the cabin. When the washboard are in there is always a harness tether brought in over the washboard , hook on before leaving the companionway!

Hi Barry,

Thanks for posting. Brought back a memory for me. I met your father and Mimi George in Ft Lauderdale in the early 80s when I was a yacht broker and they were looking for a boat and sponsor for some new adventure.

Two of the most interesting and amazing people I've met. Didn't sell them a boat but truly enjoyed the time with them.

[barryglewis]

Sorry, 2nd Transatlantic race 1964 not 1974!

[MuckAbout]

Originally Posted by markxengineerin

I'm working on this
https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...ge-258096.html

Definitely not a trivial problem. I would love to see some example footage from cruising boats, if anyone has tried already. Long term plan would be to use AI for a continuous watch, recognizing any obstructions/vessels/etc. If we can make self-driving cars, I imagine this is possible too. AIS + Radar + Camera + other simple alarms (wind gusts, heel angle, etc) would make for some good sleeping for me. Plus the camera has benefits for looking at sails, anchoring, docking, and navigating shallow waters and reefs.

After some exhaustive research and talking to experienced users I ordered the OSCAR-Navigation for this very reason. I needed a solution to the single-handed watch problem over very long distances and sailing in and around ice. The combination of FLIR, color camera, and constantly updating AI sees pretty much EVERYTHING and in every condition. By everything, I mean a bird on the water, a 2ft corner of a shipping container, and all kinds of floating trash. It is not cheap by any means but eats little power and no food. Doesn't complain and never gets tired. I suspect that in time the technology will become more affordable and widely adopted.

[CyKlop]

Originally Posted by MuckAbout

After some exhaustive research and talking to experienced users I ordered the OSCAR-Navigation for this very reason. I needed a solution to the single-handed watch problem over very long distances and sailing in and around ice. The combination of FLIR, color camera, and constantly updating AI sees pretty much EVERYTHING and in every condition. By everything, I mean a bird on the water, a 2ft corner of a shipping container, and all kinds of floating trash. It is not cheap by any means but eats little power and no food. Doesn't complain and never gets tired. I suspect that in time the technology will become more affordable and widely adopted.

There are a couple of things here that I would be cautious about. First is that nothing electronic is 100% reliable (of course, neither are humans), so checks and balances need to be incorporated into the _system_ that includes humans. This can not, should not, be a "power on and forget" thing. I'm sure that it needs periodic calibration, testing, etc. I've worked with AI and computer vision which, I think, also applies to FLIR and radar as well and I'll tell you now, I wouldn't trust it to see things that are right on the surface and irregularly/changing shape, such as something awash.

Having said that, I'm _also_ a believer that having more things looking out for potential problems is a good thing, so I'm not trying to scare you off of this thing, simply cautioning you (and/or other people) not to be overconfident in its abilities.

And that brings up the next point. Assume that it can (and does) warn you of a hazard. How much time do you have to get from your place of sleep to the helm, assimilate the problem, formulate a plan, and execute an evasion of that 2 ft corner of the shipping container that's awash?

Again, even if you still hit it, you're more ahead of the game than if you didn't know about it until after you hit it -- I get that.

[owly]

Some good thoughts....... The plexiglass dome is something I've seen on a number of boats. In some boats like a Trimaran where you have a wing berth, it could actually be right over a berth.


The electronic solution would be attractive, but in many cased it is well beyond financial reach for a low budget boater........... Ordinary video cameras are a cheap if inferior solution, though many have night vision these days. Location is a problem. The top of the mast can get pretty cluttered, is hard to reach, and calls for stringing a lot of stuff up through the mast.


The pilot house, like the bridge deck cabin offers a huge advantage in that human nature is such that if you are exhausted and are woken out of a dead sleep, the greater the effort that is demanded of you, the more likely you are to "hit snooze"........... "I haven't seen a ship in over a week....." If all you have to do is sit up and look around, it is more likely that you will do it. If it means getting out of bed, and climbing the companion steps, that's more of an effort.



Electronics are a mixed blessing........AIS and radar are liable to lull you into not checking as often as you probably should, but they are also lifesavers. Combine that with Oscar, and you will probably get a solid night's sleep most nights on a passage, depending on an "electronic watch"


I can imagine a solo sailor having a couple of screens he can see while in his berth. The AIS is always on. The radar comes on a couple of minutes before the (sleep) alarm goes off, and the cameras come on also. When he wakes, he can see the radar screen.... for weather and terrain (if there is any), his position and course, the scanning cameras (or oscar), depth, wind velocity, and barometric graph.


That's the high tech version.... something most single handers will never have unless they are sailing the Vendee Globe or something. The dome is a good simple option that might be especially appropriate in some trimarans. Data displays that are "too convenient" could encourage one NOT to do an actual visual check often enough, but video could compensate for that. What can you live with as a single hander? How much money and time are you willing to put into a system that will making passages easier in terms of fatigue?




The discussion of colregs, etc and insistence that one should not single hand are falling on deaf ears, and the more shrill and repetitive that becomes, the more it will be ignored........... That's just human nature. When was the last time you told someone you cared about who was vaccine resistant that they should get vaccinated both for themselves and to avoid becoming a spreader.......... and they went right out and got the vaccine? This falls under a similar heading.........

[Exile]

Originally Posted by MuckAbout

After some exhaustive research and talking to experienced users I ordered the OSCAR-Navigation for this very reason. I needed a solution to the single-handed watch problem over very long distances and sailing in and around ice. The combination of FLIR, color camera, and constantly updating AI sees pretty much EVERYTHING and in every condition. By everything, I mean a bird on the water, a 2ft corner of a shipping container, and all kinds of floating trash. It is not cheap by any means but eats little power and no food. Doesn't complain and never gets tired. I suspect that in time the technology will become more affordable and widely adopted.

Interesting! This is the first I've read of this system being used outside of the Vendee Globe, but I'm probably just behind the curve. I'm sure there are many who would be most interested to read how this performs for you if you are inclined to post further. Or maybe start a new thread. Best of luck with it.

[Exile]

Originally Posted by owly

* * *

The discussion of colregs, etc and insistence that one should not single hand are falling on deaf ears, and the more shrill and repetitive that becomes, the more it will be ignored........... That's just human nature. When was the last time you told someone you cared about who was vaccine resistant that they should get vaccinated both for themselves and to avoid becoming a spreader.......... and they went right out and got the vaccine? This falls under a similar heading.........

I'm a big fan of singlehanded races such as the Vendee Globe, admire seasoned singlehanders who I read about and occasionally meet, and have successfully done a fair amount of multi-day, singlehanded passagemaking myself. But I'm also fully aware that it violates Colregs and why that is so, and also why it presents significant risks which my crewed boat could more easily avoid. Some of this education is obvious and comes with experience, while other pieces of it I've learned from discussions on CF just like this one. So while I share your enthusiasm, I also welcome the critiques, especially when it comes from the many more experienced mariners -- some with professional/commercial backgrounds -- who often frequent these threads. I believe it (hopefully) makes me a more well-prepared sailor, whether I choose to sail solo or with others. IOW, I cannot understand why a mere discussion on an internet forum would be construed as anything but that.

[hpeer]

So I just looked up OSCAR price and I am confused.
Articles written in 2020 list the sailboat system at about €12,000.
But the OSCAR site lists it at €35,000.

Either way thats a bite.

[owly]

Originally Posted by hpeer

So I just looked up OSCAR price and I am confused.
Articles written in 2020 list the sailboat system at about €12,000.
But the OSCAR site lists it at €35,000.

Either way thats a bite.

It really IS out of reach for most of us...

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by owly

The pilot house, like the bridge deck cabin offers a huge advantage in that human nature is such that if you are exhausted and are woken out of a dead sleep, the greater the effort that is demanded of you, the more likely you are to "hit snooze"........... "I haven't seen a ship in over a week....." If all you have to do is sit up and look around, it is more likely that you will do it. If it means getting out of bed, and climbing the companion steps, that's more of an effort.



Electronics are a mixed blessing........AIS and radar are liable to lull you into not checking as often as you probably should, but they are also lifesavers. Combine that with Oscar, and you will probably get a solid night's sleep most nights on a passage, depending on an "electronic watch"


I can imagine a solo sailor having a couple of screens he can see while in his berth. The AIS is always on. The radar comes on a couple of minutes before the (sleep) alarm goes off, and the cameras come on also. When he wakes, he can see the radar screen.... for weather and terrain (if there is any), his position and course, the scanning cameras (or oscar), depth, wind velocity, and barometric graph.
........

This Pilot House thing is wishful thinking, and it would totally depend on the person.

Some folks can fall asleep in an instant and you have to yell or shake them to awaken them whereas others of us wake up with the slightest change.

Also, this snooze button thing is for land based sleepers.

Single hand sailors have no such luxury......even at anchor therefore the type boat matters none at all.

Best is probably sleeping in your normal spot and set your alarm for 20 minutes or so