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Old 10-02-2020, 17:26   #76
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Substandard Housing

When we lived in Minnesota I marveled at the reality that the first european settlers survived their first winter in tents made from their Conestoga wagons and earth sheltered sod huts. Talk about sub standard housing. Why didnít they get back in their wagons and go on to San Diego?
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Old 10-02-2020, 17:37   #77
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Re: Substandard Housing

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Originally Posted by Mike OReilly View Post
The last time I spent any time car camping (in what we used to call the "front country") it was still dominated by tents. Tents are now the exception. Everyone is in some sort of RV.:.
That's because we're all older now, have a little money & don't want to sleep on the ground anymore. Boating for many is like camping only better! But you had to be into camping to get that.

I lived in a tent for 2 years back in very early 80's. Fly fishing the Rockies in the summer, retreating to the southeastern states during winter. Right up there in the top 10 best times of my life.
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Old 10-02-2020, 17:56   #78
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Re: Substandard Housing

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Originally Posted by Mike OReilly View Post
I love the idea of a camper van, or even something larger like a Class C. I'm seriously looking to get one since we currently live on the boat for about 1/2 the year, and then do other things the other half.

But it ain't camping.

I suppose you can call it RV-camping if you must. But then where do you stop? Are people in trailer parks also camping? How about people who live in small, low end houses? Are they camping?

I recently went on motorcycle trip where we tented along the way. I wouldn't call this camping either, but it was an eye-opener for me. The last time I spent any time car camping (in what we used to call the "front country") it was still dominated by tents. Tents are now the exception. Everyone is in some sort of RV.

On the plus side, we got a lot of dinner invitations. People would look at our little 3-person tent, and exclaim "You're living in that! Please, come to dinner..." .
I'm guessing that well over 95% of the population would consider staying in anything that moves to other places, that doesn't have a permanent water and sewer connect, or power, to be camping. Quite honestly, your definition of camping sounds snobbish. It's a lot like that Monte Python skit.
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Old 10-02-2020, 18:39   #79
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Re: Substandard Housing

I spent my high scool years cooped up in a mobile home, sharing a typical single-wide bedroom with my brother (bunk beds). My Westerly Centaur is pretty roomy in comparison.

I suppose there are advantages to growing up poor in a trailer: thick skin. I couldn't care less what someone says about my choice of housing. Couldn't care less what the local gov't thinks, either, as long as they aren't actively hampering my ability to move along to somewhere better.
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Old 10-02-2020, 20:14   #80
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Re: Substandard Housing

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Originally Posted by Palarran View Post
I'm guessing that well over 95% of the population would consider staying in anything that moves to other places, that doesn't have a permanent water and sewer connect, or power, to be camping. Quite honestly, your definition of camping sounds snobbish. It's a lot like that Monte Python skit.
No ... it's just that I actually know what camping is. Traveling around in an RV, or in a cruising-level boat, is never going to be the same thing, no matter what the marketers try and tell us.
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Old 10-02-2020, 20:48   #81
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Re: Substandard Housing

Well Mike, it's just YOUR opinion. I'm pretty sure that my children feel they were camping when we were in a tent from the back of our car or driving across the country to visit National Parks with our travel trailer. I do hope you don't feel your the only guy who has back country camped and therefore know more. My first date with my wife (34 years ago BTW) was a hike to the top of Longs Peak in Colorado, we got engaged on a trail in the White Mountains, and had our honeymoon on Isle Royal. I've climbed Mont Blanc and froze so badly in the Rockys in the winter that my roommate and I became much, much closer than we ever wanted to be. Now that we are truck "camping" she (and I) still feels it's pretty authentic camping - I mean, she's still willing to use a pit toilet for cripes sake. Regardless, no matter what we think camping means, and what you think it means, there's someone out there that looks at what you think it means and say's "That's not even close to camping".

But this has nothing to do with sailing, just semantics.
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Old 10-02-2020, 20:55   #82
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Re: Substandard Housing

Quote:
Originally Posted by Palarran View Post
I'm guessing that well over 95% of the population would consider staying in anything that moves to other places, that doesn't have a permanent water and sewer connect, or power, to be camping. Quite honestly, your definition of camping sounds snobbish. It's a lot like that Monte Python skit.
When I crewed on the Baja Ha-Ha this year after we docked at Cabo San Lucas TS Raymond hit and the port captain closed the port (read every one had to get off the boat and get a hotel room). Most folks have been told 'when in Mexico don't drink the water' and after massive rain fall there was literally **** flowing in the run off water in the streets. Electric power was out for a while; something common in the third world.

I have never had issues like this on my boat. I can drink water straight from the faucet. Head works fine and my solar array keeps two fridges and other electronics running. I met some Mexicans and I can assure you many of them think those of us on boats were living high on the hog compared to many of the "houses' on dirt in Cabo. Thing is Cabo is high end compared to lots of other places in the Baja; and most of the third world for that matter.
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Old 10-02-2020, 22:07   #83
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Re: Substandard Housing

Tom, I have no idea what point your trying to make, especially with the addition of my quote. But sure.

You know whats funny? I left this site and went to YouTube to watch some Saturday Night skits. On the queue sidebar there was this Monte Python skit - it must have picked up me playing the one on this thread. But it's pretty apropos.

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Old 10-02-2020, 22:10   #84
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Re: Substandard Housing

We had ethnic Fijians aboard our first Insatiable. There was a comment earlier on that mirrors how they saw us: visiting chieftans, with all the mod cons they'd like to have: the gas cooker, a flush toilet, electric lights, refrigeration, HF radio communication with the outside world....

"Hae we the giftie gie us, tae see ourselves as others see us."

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Old 10-02-2020, 23:55   #85
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Re: Substandard Housing

Hey, regarding VW campervans. A friend of mine produces some rather clever conversion kits for VW (and other) vans.
Might be a solution for you?

Not sure about putting a direct link. But Google "Queensizecamper" for more info.

Quote:
Originally Posted by letsgetsailing3 View Post
See?

This guy gets it.

I love camping. And I love cruising. I don't have an RV, but I would suppose I'd like that as well.

If I could get a new VW campervan in the U.S., I'd have one right now. Ironically, they won't sell the VW California in the U.S.

What's interesting is that so many here see camping as a negative thing.
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Old 10-02-2020, 23:56   #86
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Re: Substandard Housing

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Originally Posted by Palarran View Post
I'm guessing that well over 95% of the population would consider staying in anything that moves to other places, that doesn't have a permanent water and sewer connect, or power, to be camping. Quite honestly, your definition of camping sounds snobbish. It's a lot like that Monte Python skit.
Nah. I'm guessing that much less than 95% of the population would consider sleeping in a million dollar Class A motorhome "camping". There is a personal threshold there somewhere for everyone. Mine is much closer to Mike's. My kids' might be closer to yours. Vive la difference.
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Old 11-02-2020, 01:58   #87
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Re: Substandard Housing

i lived in large penthouse and i live on L 400.

L400 is better.
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Old 11-02-2020, 05:03   #88
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Re: Substandard Housing

Yeah, I guess we must be pretty low level campers. 5 months a year in our boat, never touch a dock except to take on fuel, no hot water or AC or a bunch of other stuff. We shower out of a 5 gallon bucket in the cockpit with a little 12v pump. Kerosene cooker.

We do have a separate owners cabin with a real comfy bed though. And peace, and quiet and great views and fresh air and exercise and eternally congenial weather and REAL French restaurants and bakeries. We have friends of our choosing and opportunities to meet interesting new people and to explore new lands.

As to others opinions? Pfft!

OUR opinion is we like it and gave up a fancy center city address to be here. We gave up noise, grime, crime, traffic, CARS, crowds, worrying about being mugged, stress, TV, radio, bothersome neighbors.

And since WE live on OUR (fully paid for) boat; pfft again!
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Old 11-02-2020, 07:24   #89
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Re: Substandard Housing

5 months a year in our boat, never touch a dock except to take on fuel, no hot water or AC or a bunch of other stuff. We shower out of a 5 gallon bucket in the cockpit with a little 12v pump. Kerosene cooker.

That's camping.

It consists of having to constantly think about refilling your water, dealing with your waste, attaining and conserving all of your supplies, which you generally have to lug to your abode yourself. You have to have a keen eye on the weather, and concern yourself if it's going to be extreme. You have to constantly do most of your own maintenance. It also means you can move around in some of the best scenery in the world. It can change every day. As a side benefit, you may be able to avoid some land-based taxes.

Yes, everyone here is still rich compared to folks in the third world. We always were, we always will be. Like the gentlemen from Yorkshire, we're more fortunate than we realize.

It's OK to trade luxury for adventure. Also, it's OK to just go on an adventure. All of it's OK.
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Old 11-02-2020, 07:47   #90
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Re: Substandard Housing

Really "camping" vs "camping" is a pointless relative comparison. Everyone's going to have a slightly different definition.



It's the terminology "substandard" that I take issue with. Like we're less than those with a land based house because we choose to live differently.



I try not to judge others life choices but I wonder how much of this "angst" that there is against these people that go a different route is a reaction to the brainwashing that is done by society that you have to have kids by a certain age, go to college, get a cubicle job, be "productive" (ie pay taxes, be a cog in the machine etc) and living has to wait until you retire. "Oh NOZE, there's someone not following the plan".






Just finished reading a couple of Bernard Moitessier's books. Feel much more related to his philosophy on work, society and freedom than I do to family/friends who live on land.
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