Single Women Living Aboard and Cruising... an honest look

[gamayun]

Weavis, big hugs man. I'm sorry.

[kmacdonald]

Originally Posted by gamayun

Mac.....this coming from you smacks a bit of insincerity. Others can chime in if am I wrong, but you're skating on a sharp edge. After all the nice comments that have been posted today, please go back and re-read your comments on this thread. Then give it a thunk. You tend to stir things and generally not in a nice way.

Nope. I meant what I said in #359. If people don't believe it, I can send them a link to the knitting forum and see how long it takes for them to reconsider what I said. I at least try to give my opinion without injecting Ad Hom at every opening.

[Training Wheels]

Just for Zee, I just started reading a book I picked up in La Cruz. One Shot, Lee Child.

[goat]

Originally Posted by Training Wheels

Just for Zee, I just started reading a book I picked up in La Cruz. One Shot, Lee Child.

Reacher said nothing.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Training Wheels

Just for Zee, I just started reading a book I picked up in La Cruz. One Shot, Lee Child.

Ahah..!!! A fellow Coventry kid..

[john61ct]

I am very grateful for the kind words, and that some of my links have touched a chord. Unfortunately you can only lead a horse to water.

I'll also take the opportunity to apologize for my flippant opening high heels comment, in expressing my own (perhaps kinky) preference, I certainly did not mean to imply anything about how any category of human being "should" present themselves, nor that any of us are here should do so for the pleasure of any random others.

That said, a couple more links. One a nice story I enjoyed, happens to be from my hometown: "The Bar That Saved Me" https://medium.com/@SaraJBenincasa/t...e-70bde3547186

And a longread that, although it comes out of the current political zeitgeist, is not at all intended to derail the thread here anywhere near that direction: https://longreads.com/2017/08/24/i-w...er-people/amp/

And finally, some parenting tips: "How to Raise a Feminist Son" https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/02/u...inist-son.html

Which as a serial primary caregiver and sometimes single parent, I can tell you works well, even when raising kids on a boat 8-)

[cyan]

Originally Posted by gamayun

The thread was started by a man, who wanted to tell his daughter about living aboard. Ironic, too, no? I can tell you, a 20-yo woman these days has more chutzpah and gumption than a dozen of women combined who are my age. She doesn't need to read about a bunch of middle-aged women on boats. She can see what her peers are doing on vlogs and elsewhere. It's not so much a matter of "how" to do it but "when." If she wants it, of course. The world is her apple like no other time...

That's a good point, but I can tell you she enjoyed learning about Linda Weber-Rettie. (thanks, Ann) She thinks I'm pretty clever for suggesting that.

Regarding the thread? Controversial but very informative. Thought-provoking at the least. Thanks for chiming in now and again, BTW. Honestly, I think this topic contained a decent amount of self-moderation before gong off the rails (causing mod headaches). If someone was sexist, they were called out for it, then mostly we all moved on. Good stuff... until that nuclear thread-bomb, with long lasting fallout. The more controversial, the louder the push-back... the law of the internet. All of it negative. Unfortunately this was no environment for the original topic. On the bright side, the negative stuff has subsided. I think you simply have to let people have their say before moving on from a thread-bomb, no?
With all respect, perhaps these well-meaning pleas were simply too soon, before all retorts were given a fair chance?

sailorcherry:
Why don't you guys spend less time on this thread and go work on your boat projects or better yet go SAIL?!
gamayun:
Yeah, drop it guys. The drama's over. Move on....
gadagirl:
Let it go already!!

That was then. Peace was said.
Maybe most ARE ready to move on now? Hope so.
It will be nice to hear female views again.
Weavis recently asked some interesting questions about women standing watch. It sounds like he had a horrible day. Maybe a woman or two could give him an honest answer?
TIA.

[kmacdonald]

I'll give my wifes view on sailing: Sailing is for windless days where we can drop the hook and work on the tans. I'm not touching the tiller, strings, chart, dock lines or anything other than the suntan lotion and a glass of wine. If you want help or want to sail when it's windy, go with the guys.
I'm OK with that.

[evm1024]

As long as we are posting links we should not forget this one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3WMuzhQXJoY&t=8s

We are all being played one vs the other. Peterson speaks volumes about this.

I have 2 daughters in school (university). They come home and talk about how convincing the identity politics is but that they know better. They do not open their mouths to object due to fears of failing grades.... And there are true believers in their classes.

As noted above I work at a University. I see it every day.

I was riding the bus the other day and one of the students was on that bus too. The bus stopped in front of the local VA hospital where an older vet got on the bus. This vet was having a bit of difficulty getting the correct bus fare and as he worked on that a young, tall and skinny black man also boarded the bus and slipped behind the vet. The young man may have brushed against the vet and a confrontation was started by the vet.

The young man continued to be polite and said that he was sorry but that was not enough for the vet. They ended up taking it off the bus.

Later the student (who is in our doctorate program) and I exchanged notes on the confrontation.

This students undergrad degree is in Women's studies and Sociology. He is convinced that every interaction between people is governed by class struggles. Thus the Old White vet was oppressing the Young Black man.

I tried to point out that a large percentage of vets that get on the bus there were just angry at the world. They were in pain both physically and mentally. And the run around that they often got from the VA wound them up and anyone could set them off for any reason.

This student could not see this. It was class struggles to him. And only the color of the young mans skin.

[evm1024]

The testosterone bunch tends to look at the world in a way that makes sense for them. The estrogen crowd (it appears to me) forgets that they do the same.

Once a very bitter woman (and a feminist) asked me how I would like if I went all through high school and was never once asked out on a data.

Of course I replied that "I had not" (been asked out on a date).

When my first daughter was born every time I picked her up to hold and cuddle some woman took her from me saying that " here let me take that baby from you, no need to be bothered".

If I were to take a winch handle out of a woman's hand and say "no need to bother with adjusting that sail". I could be brought up on charges (OK, ok, an overstatement).

But I don't do that. What I do is pick the most under confident person and place them on the helm. I pick the next in line to handle the sheets. Then I support them and soon they see that they can sail a 50' boat.


If there is a point to my last 2 posts is that we all (male female, black, white, young, old) cast and receive slings and arrows. And that none of us if without some responsibility. And that we should all strive to be better today than we were yesterday.

[Exile]

Originally Posted by john61ct

I'll also take the opportunity to apologize for my flippant opening high heels comment, in expressing my own (perhaps kinky) preference, I certainly did not mean to imply anything about how any category of human being "should" present themselves, nor that any of us are here should do so for the pleasure of any random others.

Apology is unwarranted, imho. You don't mention that, before your comment about high heels, you prefaced your post with this: "I'd love to meet one that single-hands across oceans . . . ." So I for one took your comment as a rather high form of flattery towards adventurous women, and not some sort of sexist or derogatory comment about a stated preference for how you prefer women to dress. To me anyway, it was an expression of how you admire women who can pull off impressive feats of seamanship that few women and men dare to do, but at the same time not lose their femininity.

Are we really at the point where sincere, well-intended comments about a woman's accomplishments have to exclude any form of flattery towards how she may also dress or look??

[daletournier]

Originally Posted by gamayun

Weavis, I do muscle, believe me. That's why you hear from me and only a few others. I bet there are plenty of women who read this post and just don't want to be clobbered for expressing their thoughts. But it's not just this thread. It's these forums in general. The "hostility" part is very off-putting for many women. What would they get out of contributing anyway? The thread was started by a man, who wanted to tell his daughter about living aboard. Ironic, too, no? I can tell you, a 20-yo woman these days has more chutzpah and gumption than a dozen of women combined who are my age. She doesn't need to read about a bunch of middle-aged women on boats. She can see what her peers are doing on vlogs and elsewhere. It's not so much a matter of "how" to do it but "when." If she wants it, of course. The world is her apple like no other time...

Isn't it possible that many guys also don't comment or contribute, it's not just a gender thing it's about varying personalities? Many guys sit on the sidelines as well as they just know they can't win against PC gender biases.

Your also (as well as other ladies) a part of the clobbering, you display just as much "testosterone" as other contributors at times, ie your one sentence snarky replies to Exiles posts, but of course when it's guys debating or defending then it's easy to throw a label such as "testosterone" around, that descriptive label isn't appropriate for your debating style, why? your a woman?

Ive seen women bully aggressively regularly here and get snarky but that's different. I see guys like weavis who calls out NOT OK behaviour but then gets labelled the attacker and then bullied directly and indirectly by a number of people for calling out a woman's prejudice? what if it was a guy that said "all women solo sailors are prostitutes" would this thread of gone a different way? , I see Boatie carry on about not liking macho or bullying guys , but then starts bullying in a cowardly indirect way, even the "chill" comment was condescending and bullying, Sailor chic who I respect jumps in with a indirect passive insult and retreats with "I'm not part of this" ah, yes you are? . The subtlies of the double standards seem to be totally unnoticed by many because it's not convenient , maybe some of you should challenge your conditioned beliefs.

In regards to losing ladies from the thread or forum in general, it's not only ladies. I glanced over at sailnet the other day and there was a great thread started by Markj regarding crossing to Europe, remember him? He was a long time contributor here, over 12,000 posts. Well we missed out on that information in that great thread because he's no longer here. Why? Turns out he advertised for some female crew here on Cf, copped a whole lot of slack from the over sensitive types, wasn't supported by the mods and now dosent take part in this forum, our loss. So before you go "the poor ladies" get bullied out if this place by to much "testosterone" etc here's a bloke that would never be considered to "sensitive" that's not returning, he's not comfortable here.... once again our loss.

[john61ct]

Originally Posted by Exile

Apology is unwarranted, imho

I was under the impression you're male? If so, then obviously it wasn't meant for you, not sure why the need to comment at all.

Some (probably also male) mentioned they thought it was sexist, maybe they were just taking the p1ss.

[kmacdonald]

Originally Posted by kmacdonald

I'll give my wifes view on sailing: Sailing is for windless days where we can drop the hook and work on the tans. I'm not touching the tiller, strings, chart, dock lines or anything other than the suntan lotion and a glass of wine. If you want help or want to sail when it's windy, go with the guys.
I'm OK with that.

Now when I have female crew that wants to cast off the dock lines, raise the sails, trim the sheets, helm the boat, cook the food, clean the boat, pump the holing tank while I lay in the sun with a glass of wine, I'll allow it. Now it won't be easy but all in the name of cooperation.

[daletournier]

Originally Posted by Exile

Yeah, I think I just read that our good doc witnessed a traffic fatality, so opinions about air fryers may not exactly be on the top of his list right now.

As for the back & forth below, I thought Dale's comment was less about the mere fact that sailorchic decided to post, and more about blaming the perceived tone & tenor of the posts by guys on testosterone. Kinda like a guy complaining about too much estrogen in the room & sluffing off complaints by women to them being "overly emotional." Ironically, I don't think we've reached that level from any of the guys in these threads. But hey, there's still time.

Yes, it was totally missed, it's more convenient that way.