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Old 06-10-2018, 02:44   #61
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Re: Help Me Pay My Way (Well, Not Quite ... )

Regarding which generation has it "easier", c'mon. All generations had their own difficulties, but seriously, when I was a kid (back in the late 80s), my dad was a political refugee with ten bucks and a degree in his pocket when he came to the states (legally), worked as an assistant professor in New Mexico (not exactly the highest paying state) and later, Texas (a bit better but hardly president of Yale salary). My mother was a full-time housewife taking care of me and the household stuff. They owned two cars and a modest 3 bedroom home in the good part of town. How many single-earner families like that does anyone here know among parents of ANY age (let alone a 40 year old) who has a public-sector job able to do that?? My guess is zero. I sure don't. In terms of job security and pay-vs-cost of living, you can't argue that certain economic realities have changed for later generations unless you willfully put on blinders. Google any data you like.... here, I'll give you a random one from Miami, all incomes. This is not my opinion, it's demonstrable fact.



And yeah, as much as I respect your sailing posts, Kenomac, (and I really really do; I'd love to have a beer with ya when you get to Italy except I'm splitting for warmer weather soon).... the idea that the past 50 years in the states at least has been somehow better for the environment than the more recent ones is just silly. Lead gas? Lead paint? Asbestos in buildings and also in bread recipes in Libby, Idaho? 5 miles a gallon cars? Highly polluting engines vs newer technology or hybrid/electric? 2 stroke outboards vs 4 stroke? Surface and air nuclear detonations being okay? Bikini atoll testing? American made UXO still maiming people all over the world? Phosphorus / napalm use? DDT? Heath codes in restaurants? Doctors smoking cigarettes in ads? Coal vs Electric trains? Gas vs electric/hydrogen busses? CO2 sequestering? Burning coal vs TCG energy plants eating trash to make biofuel? Strip mining/slash and burn farming and clear-cut forestry vs Iceland becoming 100% renewable energy sourced and other countries fast approaching it? Or even new regs to reclaim mined ground and selective logging? Over-farming and over-building in the american west 50 years ago, leaving rivers trickles and communities without water today? No matter how you dice it, the past had some major issues that it left for the future to handle. Not out of malice, but out of ignorance.

I'm not as dumb as I appear, and I can discuss all of these and quite a bit more at length, but my coffee is running low and I have a circumnavigation leaving in a few days for which to prepare
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Old 06-10-2018, 04:53   #62
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Re: Help Me Pay My Way (Well, Not Quite ... )

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...Not out of malice, but out of ignorance.
Given the previous two paragraphs, can't say it's ignorance, maybe not malice, but certainly apathy and disrespect...
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Old 06-10-2018, 05:01   #63
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Re: Help Me Pay My Way (Well, Not Quite ... )

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Given the previous two paragraphs, can't say it's ignorance, maybe not malice, but certainly apathy and disrespect...
And greed.
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Old 06-10-2018, 05:24   #64
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Re: Help Me Pay My Way (Well, Not Quite ... )

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Given the previous two paragraphs, can't say it's ignorance, maybe not malice, but certainly apathy and disrespect...
I was being polite cause I like the dude, okay?
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Old 06-10-2018, 05:24   #65
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Re: Help Me Pay My Way (Well, Not Quite ... )

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It’s a different world...... however some of these you tubers like sv Delos are major entertainment with no commercials...... so they ask for sponsors to support their lifestyle which in turn I for one find it quite enjoyable and educational to watch. And if you follow these shows there is a lot of work that goes into the production of their videos..... it’s not just turn on the camera jump in the water and post. I am not a supporter directly however I do buy some of the products they recommend (sponsoring companies) and have bought t shirts. Difference with TV is that there is a commercial every 10 minutes. So one way or another somebody has their hand out wanting you to pay.

Greg

I do enjoy watching the Delos Videos and send them a few bucks now and again-- It does take a lot of effort to Edit and produce what they post..
I say-- Good for them for sharing what they do and are supported just like PBS/NPR..
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Old 06-10-2018, 05:48   #66
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Re: Help Me Pay My Way (Well, Not Quite ... )

Whoever claimed earlier in this post that work permits are easy to come by in any country might have travelled a lot around corporate entities. It's generally easy for corporations to find work permits for (sorts of) managerial positions, or they usually can setup with companies or service providers that will make the process easy. Apart from that, it's very difficult to get work permits in most of the world. I would say it's even impossible to get temporary work permits for most of the stuff any cruisers could be doing for work. Getting LEGAL permission to work in any country is a complicated bureocratic mess. In first world countries it's VERY complicated.

I don't understand where some people get the "it's easy to find legal work in other countries" thing from. Honestly, I would love to know where they are picking up these epxeriences.
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Old 06-10-2018, 06:00   #67
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Re: Help Me Pay My Way (Well, Not Quite ... )

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I was being polite cause I like the dude, okay?
Nothing personal toward you or Ken, the point is directed to any seeing the world they're (we're) responsible for creating through 'rose-colored glasses' (perhaps more appropriately 'select-a-view' glasses)…

But who knows, maybe the mess we've created will lead, in the end, to a "better world"--- got some prime ocean-front property in Wyoming if any of 'em's interested...
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Old 06-10-2018, 06:58   #68
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Re: Help Me Pay My Way (Well, Not Quite ... )

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Key term: "1990's" ... Were you on the Internet much in the '90s? You did not get so far 'out of touch' from common sense, the Internet generation did.

Wiki: "YouTube, LLC is an American video-sharing website headquartered in San Bruno, California."

Key word: "sharing" = FREE

Human psychology: As for giving your hard-earned money to beggar strangers with expensive yachts who swim in the tropics and drink beer on sandy beaches using YOUR money, one theory proposes that some people take pleasure in charitable giving because of its enhancement of their social status. They enjoy being regarded as wealthy or generous by their peers.

That's just one theory. Personally, I will never give my money to healthy-looking lazy beggar strangers looking for handouts, and I will always consider those that do to be complete idiots.

Ps; I suggest you change the title of this thread to:

"Help Me Pay My Way (Well, Exactly That ... )"
I have noticed in comment sections that these patrons are referred to as "family","a tribe",and even have cute little personal endearing nicknames to make them feel a part of something. Great marketing tactics! As far as this new buzzword "vicariously" if put that money in ypur savings may actually be able to get out of the office or house and make real friend's and go on real adventures.
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Old 06-10-2018, 07:29   #69
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Re: Help Me Pay My Way (Well, Not Quite ... )

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Originally Posted by Mike OReilly View Post
Based on my study (as a journalist) of various international trade agreements, it is increasingly difficult to gain these kinds of ‘blue collar’ work visas. I’ve read numerous accounts of cruisers-of-old (60s, 70s, perhaps early 80s) that stopped a circumnavigation for "months or weeks or even a years,” to work at local jobs and ‘fill the cruising kitty.’ These days this has become nearly impossible for blue collar kinds of jobs. White collar, especially in the healthcare fields, still seems doable, but that is not what was mentioned.

If the idea is to return back to a job in the homeland every few months, again, this is no longer as easy or available to most. Today, most workers live far more precarious and uncertain lives. The idea of taking off for months or years, and then being able to slide back into the job, is a privilege reserved to the very few.

What teed me off about sailorladd’s post is his/her broad application of a provably false stereotype; that millennials are somehow lazy or entitled. Any look at the data shows this not to be the case, but it is a trope that is all-too-often trotted out by some.

On this thread it has already been well discussed that there are many — mostly younger — cruisers who are working their @sses off to produce content. They market and sell this material via various platforms such as youtube or facebook. These people are not beggars. They are hard working creative people who are trying to make a living with the skills they have. This is no different that someone getting paid to do "carpentry, or fiberglassing or similar” types of work. But somehow it is denigrated and equated with “begging.”

There are the beggars and free riders out there. They deserve scorn. But begging and free riding was not invented by the millennial generation. Nor is it something the Internet created. And it is no more prevalent today than it was in the past.
I have worked in machine shops for 3 decade's. Started out with all manual machine's which many have gone computerized. Can tell you from personal experience that most of the people I work with are over 40 to 45. From what I hear from employers they can not find younger employee's. Works out great for me as I can land a job in any location that has industrial type work. It's a hot, dirty job but does put money in my pocket.
Would I prefer to make money on a beach with a beer and a camera? Absolutely! I have the camera equipment (take pics to show my kid's) just lacking the creative flair and the bikini clad young crew to effectively market.
When economy dips (and it will again) I can get a steady paycheck as needed. Depending on other's "discretionary" spending habits isn't a very reliable source of income. When these "vicarious"office worker's stop sending money they will be up the proverbial creek.
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Old 06-10-2018, 07:42   #70
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Re: Help Me Pay My Way (Well, Not Quite ... )

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I have worked in machine shops for 3 decade's. Started out with all manual machine's which many have gone computerized. Can tell you from personal experience that most of the people I work with are over 40 to 45. From what I hear from employers they can not find younger employee's. Works out great for me as I can land a job in any location that has industrial type work. It's a hot, dirty job but does put money in my pocket.
Would I prefer to make money on a beach with a beer and a camera? Absolutely! I have the camera equipment (take pics to show my kid's) just lacking the creative flair and the bikini clad young crew to effectively market.
When economy dips (and it will again) I can get a steady paycheck as needed. Depending on other's "discretionary" spending habits isn't a very reliable source of income. When these "vicarious"office worker's stop sending money they will be up the proverbial creek.
No disagreement from me … except to say you undervalue and under estimate the skills and difficulty of producing quality video. It’s far from simply hanging out on a beach with a beer.

I’m not in any way denigrating “blue collar” skills. I’m rapidly developing some of them, and wish I had more. But I don’t appreciate the kind of blanket stereotyping some people have made here regarding the up and coming generations. By most measures they are working harder, for less, with fewer opportunities and with a far more precarious future than most of us oldies. The reasons for this are many, but for good or ill, they are growing up in a world created by their parents’ generations (Baby Boomers and Gen-Xers).
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Old 06-10-2018, 08:21   #71
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Re: Help Me Pay My Way (Well, Not Quite ... )

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... you undervalue and under estimate the skills and difficulty of producing quality video ...
... nor is it very common based on the admittedly small sampling I've endured.

How many " ... and then we anchored in a beautiful bay ..." or " ... now let me show you how we stow our canned goods ..." movies does it take to get such points across? IOW, if you've read one "Anna Karenina" you're unlikeley to invest in a second copy.

The suggestion in many comments to this thread seems to be that there's an abundance of fine "work" just waiting for responsible financial support. Can't say that's been my experience.
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Old 06-10-2018, 08:26   #72
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Re: Help Me Pay My Way (Well, Not Quite ... )

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No disagreement from me … except to say you undervalue and under estimate the skills and difficulty of producing quality video. It’s far from simply hanging out on a beach with a beer.

I’m not in any way denigrating “blue collar” skills. I’m rapidly developing some of them, and wish I had more. But I don’t appreciate the kind of blanket stereotyping some people have made here regarding the up and coming generations. By most measures they are working harder, for less, with fewer opportunities and with a far more precarious future than most of us oldies. The reasons for this are many, but for good or ill, they are growing up in a world created by their parents’ generations (Baby Boomers and Gen-Xers).
I'm on the line between Gen x and Boomer. I guess can blame us for all the ills. We did change the banking system. When I was young we saved up and bought what we wanted. Or we had to at least save up a % of cost as a down payment. No? Sorry you cant have it then.Now it's you can have what you want now just sign here!
This is what lead to the massive increase in housing,cars,education. When this millennial generation signs on $100,000 worth of student loans, $30,000 for a car, $250,000 for a condo (or catamaran) it's viewed as just another payment. Isn't like will ever own it anyway right? That's the new accepted thought process and not the fault of previous generations. I still adhere to the "pay as I go" doctine although have excellent credit I use it only to keep it. Not sure how the new generation will fix this dilemma but just saying no to debt is a start. Last year was the first year millenials had the voting upperhand in numbers. Now the future is in their hands. From here on out the blame rests squarely on them
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Old 06-10-2018, 08:33   #73
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Re: Help Me Pay My Way (Well, Not Quite ... )

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... nor is it very common based on the admittedly small sampling I've endured.

How many " ... and then we anchored in a beautiful bay ..." or " ... now let me show you how we stow our canned goods ..." movies does it take to get such points across? IOW, if you've read one "Anna Karenina" you're unlikeley to invest in a second copy.
OK… so, based on a “small sampling,” you don’t like what you’ve seen. Fine, but so what? All this says is you don’t like these videos. Neither do I, but obviously millions of people do, based on the numbers some of the big youtubers generate.

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The suggestion in many comments to this thread seems to be that there's an abundance of fine "work" just waiting for responsible financial support. Can't say that's been my experience.
Please point to where anyone has said this here. I missed it.
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Old 06-10-2018, 08:47   #74
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Re: Help Me Pay My Way (Well, Not Quite ... )

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I'm on the line between Gen x and Boomer. I guess can blame us for all the ills. We did change the banking system. When I was young we saved up and bought what we wanted. Or we had to at least save up a % of cost as a down payment. No? Sorry you cant have it then.Now it's you can have what you want now just sign here!
Totally with you. Debt is the new shackles of slavery. But this massive expansion of the debt culture is on us — meaning our generations.

The foundational causes of this new debt culture are something you and I could have a grand time discussing, hopefully over many a beer. I think the core reason is explained by Sojourner’s graph, but regardless, it is a system built by the older generations, not the millennials.

But you’re right that our time is ending. Our generations are rapidly sailing off into the sunset. Soon it will all be the millenials’ fault. Funny how pop culture is already producing these ‘blame game’ stories, except now it’s the new-new generation: Gen-Z. They are already blaming the millennials for screwing things up.

Circles within circles...
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Old 06-10-2018, 09:57   #75
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Re: Help Me Pay My Way (Well, Not Quite ... )

The Corporate debt trap is decades, maybe hundreds of years old.
My Father came from Appalachia, Kentucky actually, where most everyone worked for the mine, they rented their houses from the mine, bought all food, clothing etc from the mine store.
They weren’t able to buy or rent elsewhere, cause they were not paid with US currency, but with mine script.
I don’t think it’s that bad now anywhere, not in the US anyway, but it was, less than 100 yrs ago.
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