Help Me Pay My Way (Well, Not Quite ... )

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

The Corporate debt trap is decades, maybe hundreds of years old.
My Father came from Appalachia, Kentucky actually, where most everyone worked for the mine, they rented their houses from the mine, bought all food, clothing etc from the mine store.
They weren’t able to buy or rent elsewhere, cause they were not paid with US currency, but with mine script.
I don’t think it’s that bad now anywhere, not in the US anyway, but it was, less than 100 yrs ago.

True.

Once again you make me consider Thomas Piketty’s recent seminal work looking at the history of the economy. It is both enlightening and sobering to consider that the post-war period, where the rising tide actually did lift all boats, may be the real aberration.

Amongst “Captital’s” many findings is the idea that the default economic position is closer to a feudal structure, with a few rich and a huge number of poor. The rise of the wealth gap, which I used to contrast with the post-war/pre 1980 period, should more rightly be seen as a return to the long-term status quo.

A depressing thought indeed (at least for me). Which is partly why I’ve gone cruising.

[Kenomac]

Not looking to engage in any kind of argument, but some respondents really need to open up an unbiased history book to learn what things were like back in the 50’s , 60’s annd 70’s. History did not begin in the 80’s. We had “smog alerts”in Southern California on most days of the week when the officials judged the air to be harmful to breathe, so we walked to school with our eyes watering and throat burning... notice I wrote “walk to school” which is because most families had only one car back in the sixties... a car which burned leaded gas, no seatbelts, no airbags, no shoulder straps, no disc or abs brakes, no catalytic converter and got 6mpg. That’s just how it was.

Us children from the 60’s and 70’s were the ones who changed the direction of conservation and attitudes towards the environment. Spent most my time in the Boy Scouts clearing nature trails and digging outhouses for Mexican orphanages to become an Eagle scout at 14. Got everywhere on a three speed bike... mothers didn’t tote kids around in SUVs back then because.... SUVs hadn’t been invented. Mothers just told us to walk or ride your bike... everyone did it... there was no other choice.

Please explain what most of you have done other than complain and place blame? Personally... I really don’t care if you believe me, but I’m just suggesting some of you need to do some homework. And please don’t try to tell me that it’s so much harder to get ahead during the past twenty years than it used to be... we’ve started from zero three times during our adult lives, the last time beginning in 2000 around the dot com crash. It’s the same today as its always been, usually with hard work and long hours being the answer to overcome economic obstacles.

[senormechanico]

Originally Posted by Olly75

Clean and pristine?

lmao.

Nice try taking it out of context...


The whole idea posted was "You now have a relatively pristine environment compared to what we grew up in, "



the key word was RELATIVELY....

[Bob Morane]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

Not looking to engage in any kind of argument, but some respondents really need to open up an unbiased history book to learn what things were like back in the 50’s , 60’s annd 70’s. History did not begin in the 80’s. We had “smog alerts”in Southern California on most days of the week when the officials judged the air to be harmful to breathe, so we walked to school with our eyes watering and throat burning... notice I wrote “walk to school” which is because most families had only one car back in the sixties... a car which burned leaded gas, no seatbelts, no airbags, no shoulder straps, no disc or abs brakes, no catalytic converter and got 6mpg. That’s just how it was.

Us children from the 60’s and 70’s were the ones who changed the direction of conservation and attitudes towards the environment. Spent most my time in the Boy Scouts clearing nature trails and digging outhouses for Mexican orphanages to become an Eagle scout at 14. Got everywhere on a three speed bike... mothers didn’t tote kids around in SUVs back then because.... SUVs hadn’t been invented. Mothers just told us to walk or ride your bike... everyone did it... there was no other choice.

Please explain what most of you have done other than complain and place blame? Personally... I really don’t care if you believe me, but I’m just suggesting some of you need to do some homework. And please don’t try to tell me that it’s so much harder to get ahead during the past twenty years than it used to be... we’ve started from zero three times during our adult lives, the last time beginning in 2000 around the dot com crash. It’s the same today as its always been, usually with hard work and long hours being the answer to overcome economic obstacles.

I guess the foundation of the disagreement is base on having different experiences in different places because what you say in this post doesn't hold true at all for Tasmania, where I live, especially for Marine Environment.

Over here, every Diver / Fisherman I have ever met in their 60s and 70s keeps telling me how better it was back in the days, fishes were plentiful and had time to grow big. How everybody could just get Crays, Abalones and Scallops on snorkel.

Now the bottom has been wrecked because commercial vessels have been dredging everything and fish populations are ridiculously low. My area has been closed for any scallop fishing for the last 10 years with the population yet to start recovering because of a few greedy people abusing regulations (or the lack of) and selling everything to the Asian market.

This is fine, it was different times and nobody knew better. But it just pisses me off when they tell me how lazy my generation is while they had to deal with 10% of the regulations we had.
To get my current full-time job I had to go through 3 weeks of recruitment process and 3 different medicals, I am forbidden to work on the side because of the fatigue management policy. I can't fix my own car because I am not a registered and certified" mechanics apparently.
So I do what I can to save the money for the dream, a bit of uber driving, few picking jobs here and there on top of the full time and basically living like a hobo to save more.

And again this is all fine because I'll get there, but I wish old people would stop calling me lazy and entitled to my face, this is annoying me.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by thinwater

Perhaps this is not PC, but...

I feel the same way about bands, athletic teams, and most school groups. Have a bake sale, sell mulch, whatever, but don't come to my house. You are not a legitimate charity and it the same as panhandling without being poor.

I mowed lawns and raked leaves to pay for those things, so I feel zero need to contribute to something unnecessary. I also worked my way through college and skipped going to the moves and pub crawling because I could not justify the expense, certainly not if I was asking for help with ANY part of it. You ask for help only when you can do no more.

Yup, hard ass.

Real hard times are different. Once you have done all that you can, then asking for help is guilt free. Anyone can fall down.

I agree with this assessment. Hate the school fundraisers also...they know that most people will feel guilty telling a child "no". It's trying to make you feel guilty that bugs me.

Same thing with blogs. If you want to put up a pay to view site, more power to you but when you start trying to make me feel guilty for your lack of planning and hard work...that's just turns me off and I typically stop following your blog.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by Bob Morane

I guess the foundation of the disagreement is base on having different experiences in different places because what you say in this post doesn't hold true at all for Tasmania, where I live, especially for Marine Environment.

Over here, every Diver / Fisherman I have ever met in their 60s and 70s keeps telling me how better it was back in the days, fishes were plentiful and had time to grow big. How everybody could just get Crays, Abalones and Scallops on snorkel.

Now the bottom has been wrecked because commercial vessels have been dredging everything and fish populations are ridiculously low. My area has been closed for any scallop fishing for the last 10 years with the population yet to start recovering because of a few greedy people abusing regulations (or the lack of) and selling everything to the Asian market.

This is fine, it was different times and nobody knew better. But it just pisses me off when they tell me how lazy my generation is while they had to deal with 10% of the regulations we had.
To get my current full-time job I had to go through 3 weeks of recruitment process and 3 different medicals, I am forbidden to work on the side because of the fatigue management policy. I can't fix my own car because I am not a registered and certified" mechanics apparently.
So I do what I can to save the money for the dream, a bit of uber driving, few picking jobs here and there on top of the full time and basically living like a hobo to save more.

And again this is all fine because I'll get there, but I wish old people would stop calling me lazy and entitled to my face, this is annoying me.

Well maybe I get just as tired of younger people making the generalization that all older people are the cause of their current problems... it works both ways. I personally didn’t go half way around the world and over-fish your waters. I disagree with the practice of dredging with nets. Who do you think put the “sensible” environmental regs and practices in place before most younger people were born? Now you seem to be complaining about the need for more regulations to clean things up, but at the same time complaining about regulations put in place that are holding you back personally, again, you can’t have it both ways.

[PortClydeMe]

Originally Posted by Steamerlanes

I have noticed in comment sections that these patrons are referred to as "family","a tribe",and even have cute little personal endearing nicknames to make them feel a part of something. Great marketing tactics! As far as this new buzzword "vicariously" if put that money in ypur savings may actually be able to get out of the office or house and make real friend's and go on real adventures.

Yes, it's a very clever marketing tactic. But, it's fairly easy grabbing donation coins from Internet-generation folks who rarely get outside the 1-meter-diameter circle that surrounds their mobile phone or laptop.

My mother is now 87, and she taught me common sense and Economics 101 from a very young age. Example (mother talking to Internet-generation children who live in the basement with mommy-daddy credit cards and no job):

Mother: "What's this strange charge on the VISA statement?"
Child: "Uhhh, I gave money to my new friends."
Mother: "What? New friends?"
Child: "Yeah, Mom. They call me "bro" and "family". I help pay for their permanent vacation, and beer. They call me one of their "tribe.""
Mother: "What? No more credit card for you, and you're now grounded for a week. After that, go outside and get a job, and some real friends."

[PortClydeMe]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

Not looking to engage in any kind of argument, but some respondents really need to open up an unbiased history book to learn what things were like back in the 50’s , 60’s annd 70’s. History did not begin in the 80’s. We had “smog alerts”in Southern California on most days of the week when the officials judged the air to be harmful to breathe, so we walked to school with our eyes watering and throat burning... notice I wrote “walk to school” which is because most families had only one car back in the sixties... a car which burned leaded gas, no seatbelts, no airbags, no shoulder straps, no disc or abs brakes, no catalytic converter and got 6mpg. That’s just how it was.

Us children from the 60’s and 70’s were the ones who changed the direction of conservation and attitudes towards the environment. Spent most my time in the Boy Scouts clearing nature trails and digging outhouses for Mexican orphanages to become an Eagle scout at 14. Got everywhere on a three speed bike... mothers didn’t tote kids around in SUVs back then because.... SUVs hadn’t been invented. Mothers just told us to walk or ride your bike... everyone did it... there was no other choice.

Please explain what most of you have done other than complain and place blame? Personally... I really don’t care if you believe me, but I’m just suggesting some of you need to do some homework. And please don’t try to tell me that it’s so much harder to get ahead during the past twenty years than it used to be... we’ve started from zero three times during our adult lives, the last time beginning in 2000 around the dot com crash. It’s the same today as its always been, usually with hard work and long hours being the answer to overcome economic obstacles.

You are absolutely correct. I was there. It's all true. Good thing that there was no Internet service providers and no laptops and no cell phones in the '60s and '70s.

[JPA Cate]

@ Bob Morane,

No one outside Tasmania seems to be aware of the problems caused by the proliferation of the fish farms. We were told by a friend of ours, that you used to be able to see the bottom all over Isthmus Bay, in the shallow water, and in the 30 ft. water. All that's gone.

Had a friend with a mussel farm down by Dover, not now, and our friend moved away. The excrement, and other pollution from the fish farms killed his.

But no one knows. The fish farms are a big industry, with lots of employees, and the local economy will shrink if most of them are closed down. I have eaten abalones caught free diving near Recherche Bay, and so, there may be a few left where the ocean action prevents the fish farming.

People up north here (Qld, right now, but we're headed south to Tassie) don't know what kind of Tassie salmon to buy. Fair dinkum.

Ann

[Zarih]

Traveling, cruising and vlogging is a choice they make. Putting time into it is a choice. Maybe if you cannot afford to cruise full time, don't? However, I do support one channel which I find really good.

[Mike OReilly]

As I said, circles within circles. It seems to be one of those eternal truths that the generations find blame in the other. And there is plenty of blame to go around. But it’s not particularly useful to point fingers. My view is that people generally do the best they can, given the informaiton they have and the constraints they face.

No one wants to leave the world worse off for their progeny (well, almost no one). But one of the great skills homo sapiens have is the ability for self delusion. We can convince ourselves of just about anything given the right circumstances. So we should always question our own beliefs (which is hard to do).

In this case, the newer generations are not lazy or entitled. And the older generations are not greedy and uncaring. Reality is far more nuanced.

[jimbunyard]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

...but some respondents really need to open up an unbiased history book... and got 6mpg. That’s just how it was...

Indeed.

[kerrydeare]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

As I said, circles within circles. It seems to be one of those eternal truths that the generations find blame in the other. And there is plenty of blame to go around. But it’s not particularly useful to point fingers. My view is that people generally do the best they can, given the informaiton they have and the constraints they face.

No one wants to leave the world worse off for their progeny (well, almost no one). But one of the great skills homo sapiens have is the ability for self delusion. We can convince ourselves of just about anything given the right circumstances. So we should always question our own beliefs (which is hard to do).

In this case, the newer generations are not lazy or entitled. And the older generations are not greedy and uncaring. Reality is far more nuanced.

Yeah, I was kinda wunderin' about all that.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by jimbunyard

Indeed.

Our family Ford Country Squire station wagon with fake wood siding and 428 engine got 6mpg. Indeed... look it up Mr. Smartypants..

FWI: As a ten year old, I didn’t have much choice as to which vehicle back in 1967.

[Caribbeachbum]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

Not looking to engage in any kind of argument, but some respondents really need to open up an unbiased history book to learn what things were like back in the 50’s , 60’s annd 70’s. History did not begin in the 80’s. We had “smog alerts”in Southern California on most days of the week when the officials judged the air to be harmful to breathe, so we walked to school with our eyes watering and throat burning... notice I wrote “walk to school” which is because most families had only one car back in the sixties... a car which burned leaded gas, no seatbelts, no airbags, no shoulder straps, no disc or abs brakes, no catalytic converter and got 6mpg. That’s just how it was.

Us children from the 60’s and 70’s were the ones who changed the direction of conservation and attitudes towards the environment. Spent most my time in the Boy Scouts clearing nature trails and digging outhouses for Mexican orphanages to become an Eagle scout at 14. Got everywhere on a three speed bike... mothers didn’t tote kids around in SUVs back then because.... SUVs hadn’t been invented. Mothers just told us to walk or ride your bike... everyone did it... there was no other choice.

Please explain what most of you have done other than complain and place blame? Personally... I really don’t care if you believe me, but I’m just suggesting some of you need to do some homework. And please don’t try to tell me that it’s so much harder to get ahead during the past twenty years than it used to be... we’ve started from zero three times during our adult lives, the last time beginning in 2000 around the dot com crash. It’s the same today as its always been, usually with hard work and long hours being the answer to overcome economic obstacles.

All true; and I could write pages more of similar stuff. Growing up in the 60s and 70s was so very different than "these kids today."

Even so, hard work and long hours are not enough. Some combination of smarts and luck are also mandatory, otherwise the bootstraps won't lift you past a few dollars over minimum wage. I've had many employees caught in this scenario, and the worst part is that at some point they see that they will never get ahead. Then their attitude suffers, making their work lives even more untenable. It's a problem I don't know how to solve, but I can't pretend that it doesn't exist.