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Old 05-10-2018, 12:53   #46
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Re: Help Me Pay My Way (Well, Not Quite ... )

As a would-be sailor stuck in the desert, counting the days to his ASA 101, already saving for his 103/104, and pushing a decade in the content-driven side hustle scene, I'd like to chime in on this one if that's okay.

We should appreciate those enterprising souls who take it upon themselves to turn their hobbies into something bigger than hobbies. Remember lemonade stands when we were kids? We still see them today. Don't they make you feel like there's still some good in the world?

Technology has democratized content creation. 10 years ago, we were all familiar with the adage we were carrying more powerful technology in our pockets with early smart phones than NASA used to put men on the Moon. Today, we have high definition video, bluetooth, the works. We shoot better videos than any television channel in the world was able to do before 2000.

I'm a paycheck-to-paycheck, 40-year old, Gen X-er who wants to sail. I want the simplicity, the freedom, the peace, the reconnection to all that is good and pure in the world and in people. That's what draws me to the wind and the water.

That said, being a desert-based dreamer in Phoenix, I spend a lot of time watching YouTube videos in pursuit of something real on the water. I found Delos. (Didn't we all?) But even for me, as a self-publisher looking to escape the time clock by delivering a high quality, meaningful product for however many people I can effectively serve, the number of pretty people on expensive boats talking about the same things, and asking for money, get old.

This is just supply and demand, though. First to market usually capitalizes, right? Once others see it works, they follow suit. Until next thing you know, there's a man in a costume on every street corner with a big sign announcing they buy gold.

I'm a lurker. I'll go back to lurking in a moment, but maybe the way of looking at this stuff is to consider the people asking for the money. Are they the kids up the street who spent their allowance on lemons, their morning making a big sign, and their entire afternoon smiling and waving to thirsty passersby?

If so, I say we should support those kids. If not financially, with our kind words and simple sharing efforts. Let's make a point of helping those who are clearly trying to share something special with the world.

And there's no harm in ignoring those who are clearly in it to make a buck.

Thanks for the bandwidth.

EDIT: Ah, jeez. This was my first post? Ah well. Hi everybody!
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Old 05-10-2018, 14:07   #47
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Re: Help Me Pay My Way (Well, Not Quite ... )

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That comes as no surprise, given the lack of appreciation and discipline these millennials and other "entitled" youngsters have.... it's no wonder that the harbor and immigration people have hardened their hearts to these sea gypsies and vagrants who come limping in with broken boats, starving pets and no money to pay their spoilt brat way... I am not putting down sea gypsies and folks cruising on a budget, hell, that was the only way I could do this, BUT!!!

When I ran out of money, I would go and get a job, doing anything! Even cleaned toilets at some point, but mainly worked with my hands doing carpentry, or fiberglassing or similar as I built my boat I learned a lot of different trades, but it seems these entitled young kids do not have any worthwhile trades other than fingering their cell phones or ipads all day long....

When I pulled up at a place and needed to work I found the months or weeks or even a years break from sailing to be a welcome break! I would be earning money, I got to know the local people well, and I learned a lot more of the places I visited, and still I was able to lie around in the sun, go for little week end sails, dive, hike around etc... so there is NO excuse!! It gives sailors and cruiser a BAD name to be begging and sponging off the generosity of others...I see this in every walk of life too, not just sailing...
This post is offensive, ignorant of actual reality, and wrapped up with a suggestion to break local labour laws … nice .

Millennials are no lazier or entitled than previous generations. By some measure they are MORE industrious than their coddled parents. But what they do face are very real economic and social challenges that were not faced by previous generations.

The statement that harbour masters have hardened their hearts against sea gypsies due to the effects of millennial cruisers is utter poppycock (and I don’t use that word lightly ). Since cruisers are overwhelmingly of the 50+ age range, if there is any truth to this factoid, it is likely NOT due to young cruisers.

There is a category of cruiser beggars online. But this is nothing new, and it is rare. It may seem more prominent b/c of the amplifyng power of the Internet, but it was always so.
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Old 05-10-2018, 14:44   #48
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Re: Help Me Pay My Way (Well, Not Quite ... )

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This post is offensive, ignorant of actual reality, and wrapped up with a suggestion to break local labour laws … nice .

Millennials are no lazier or entitled than previous generations. By some measure they are MORE industrious than their coddled parents. But what they do face are very real economic and social challenges that were not faced by previous generations.

The statement that harbour masters have hardened their hearts against sea gypsies due to the effects of millennial cruisers is utter poppycock (and I don’t use that word lightly ). Since cruisers are overwhelmingly of the 50+ age range, if there is any truth to this factoid, it is likely NOT due to young cruisers.

There is a category of cruiser beggars online. But this is nothing new, and it is rare. It may seem more prominent b/c of the amplifyng power of the Internet, but it was always so.
Mike,

I don’t find his post ignorant or offensive, and don’s see where the guy is breaking any laws, one can easily get a work permit if required in most countries. I actually agree that everyone should work to pay his or her own way in life. I work with some younger people who work two 40 hour jobs, they’re not looking for handouts, and they feel the same way I do about the layabouts and complainers.

Ken
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Old 05-10-2018, 15:15   #49
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Re: Help Me Pay My Way (Well, Not Quite ... )

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Mike,

I don’t find his post ignorant or offensive, and don’s see where the guy is breaking any laws, one can easily get a work permit if required in most countries. I actually agree that everyone should work to pay his or her own way in life. I work with some younger people who work two 40 hour jobs, they’re not looking for handouts, and they feel the same way I do about the layabouts and complainers.

Ken
I worked an 82 hr work week for 6 month's straight. (I did get Christmas day off). This is how I support my boat and extended cruising vacations. Then again have no urge to broadcast these vacations in hopes of making a buck. Definitely think it is pretty low to focus on girlfriend's boobs to get other's to fork it over so can avoid a day's work. I watched a few to see where I may want to visit but it got old very quickly so no longer watch any. To each thier own if want to send money to other's for whatever reason
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Old 05-10-2018, 15:15   #50
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Re: Help Me Pay My Way (Well, Not Quite ... )

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Mike,

I don’t find his post ignorant or offensive, and don’s see where the guy is breaking any laws, one can easily get a work permit if required in most countries. I actually agree that everyone should work to pay his or her own way in life. I work with some younger people who work two 40 hour jobs, they’re not looking for handouts, and they feel the same way I do about the layabouts and complainers.
Perhaps I’ve misinterpreted the message. What I read is that sailorladd made a broad generalization about the “...lack of appreciation and discipline these millennials and other "entitled" youngsters have.” Millennials, and other “youngsters” are no more entitled or lacking disciple than any previous generation. And there’s ample evidence to suggest they are just the opposite (as a broad generalization ).

Of course people should not sponge off society. But there are always free riders in any community. Millennial generation has their share, but so do our own cohorts. And it is a fact these new generations face economic and social challenges not faced by recent older generations.

sailorladd said when he ran out of money he'd stop his cruising and get a job. If he did this fully legally, then I apologies for my interpretation. But it is a fact that it used to be easier to work under the table, outside the law, while cruising. Cruising stories of old (60s-70s generations) are ripe with this kind of experience. This has become much harder to do now.
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Old 05-10-2018, 15:20   #51
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Re: Help Me Pay My Way (Well, Not Quite ... )

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one can easily get a work permit if required in most countries.
I have only spent 10% of my adult life in my home country, have lived in dozens of places around the world, and not found this to be the case.

A well-qualified professional perhaps, but not in trades where they have plenty of locals.
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Old 05-10-2018, 15:28   #52
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Re: Help Me Pay My Way (Well, Not Quite ... )

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I have only spent 10% of my adult life in my home country, have lived in dozens of places around the world, and not found this to be the case.

A well-qualified professional perhaps, but not in trades where they have plenty of locals.
I return to US once a year to see my kid's and replace what have spent before take off again. Trying to work in foriegn countries would seem to be a hassle and stressful. On a boat to avoid all that and the new marketing commercialized post modern ways.
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Old 05-10-2018, 19:03   #53
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Re: Help Me Pay My Way (Well, Not Quite ... )

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I have only spent 10% of my adult life in my home country, have lived in dozens of places around the world, and not found this to be the case.

A well-qualified professional perhaps, but not in trades where they have plenty of locals.
Based on my study (as a journalist) of various international trade agreements, it is increasingly difficult to gain these kinds of ‘blue collar’ work visas. I’ve read numerous accounts of cruisers-of-old (60s, 70s, perhaps early 80s) that stopped a circumnavigation for "months or weeks or even a years,” to work at local jobs and ‘fill the cruising kitty.’ These days this has become nearly impossible for blue collar kinds of jobs. White collar, especially in the healthcare fields, still seems doable, but that is not what was mentioned.

If the idea is to return back to a job in the homeland every few months, again, this is no longer as easy or available to most. Today, most workers live far more precarious and uncertain lives. The idea of taking off for months or years, and then being able to slide back into the job, is a privilege reserved to the very few.

What teed me off about sailorladd’s post is his/her broad application of a provably false stereotype; that millennials are somehow lazy or entitled. Any look at the data shows this not to be the case, but it is a trope that is all-too-often trotted out by some.

On this thread it has already been well discussed that there are many — mostly younger — cruisers who are working their @sses off to produce content. They market and sell this material via various platforms such as youtube or facebook. These people are not beggars. They are hard working creative people who are trying to make a living with the skills they have. This is no different that someone getting paid to do "carpentry, or fiberglassing or similar” types of work. But somehow it is denigrated and equated with “begging.”

There are the beggars and free riders out there. They deserve scorn. But begging and free riding was not invented by the millennial generation. Nor is it something the Internet created. And it is no more prevalent today than it was in the past.
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Old 05-10-2018, 19:29   #54
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Re: Help Me Pay My Way (Well, Not Quite ... )

Don't forget, the older generation (50+) abused and continue to abuse the environment so that there is less left to enjoy. Consider the dying coral reefs, and heavy metals in fish.

And still most of these older cruisers insist on their engines, how disappointing, and a bad example for the next generation. Also completely unnecessary! It actually makes more work maintaining the boat!!

So I give free solar panels to young cruisers, why not? But only if I see them sail off their anchor because then they deserve something.
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Old 05-10-2018, 19:52   #55
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Re: Help Me Pay My Way (Well, Not Quite ... )

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Don't forget, the older generation (50+) abused and continue to abuse the environment so that there is less left to enjoy. Consider the dying coral reefs, and heavy metals in fish.
.
A 100 times this.

Last month, I had to listen to a 70 year old ex-diver from South Australia who was rambling about how lazy and entitled the new generation is, only to continue on about how he was making 50.000$ (200.000$+ 2018 equivalent) in a 3 months season in the 70s and 80s pillaging abalones and crays of SA and Tassie.
I now have to do 4 times the effort this guy did to make off half of the equivalent money.

This guy now owns 8 houses and feed off the rent of the "lazy and entitled" new generation, jacking houses prices up for anyone trying to enter the market.

Real example right there, even thought it's limited to my own circle and not representative of everyone.
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Old 05-10-2018, 20:50   #56
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Re: Help Me Pay My Way (Well, Not Quite ... )

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Perhaps I’ve misinterpreted the message. What I read is that sailorladd made a broad generalization about the “...lack of appreciation and discipline these millennials and other "entitled" youngsters have.” [...]

Totally agree with you, Mike! (I might add "again").


That poster certainly came across as a grumpy and bitter old man and I feel sorry for him.
Yes, yes, yes, he might've been through a lot and those were hard times, all understood. That doesn't mean that all kids nowadays are "iphone-fingering" bludgers, what it means is that we can now see a lot of them online if we so choose.

In the good 'ole days of three channel TVs we just had very little idea and exposure of what's out there.
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Old 05-10-2018, 20:52   #57
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Re: Help Me Pay My Way (Well, Not Quite ... )

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[...]
Last month, I had to listen to a 70 year old ex-diver from South Australia who was rambling about how lazy and entitled the new generation is, only to continue on about how he was making 50.000$ (200.000$+ 2018 equivalent) in a 3 months season in the 70s and 80s pillaging abalones and crays of SA and Tassie.
I now have to do 4 times the effort this guy did to make off half of the equivalent money.

This guy now owns 8 houses and feed off the rent of the "lazy and entitled" new generation, jacking houses prices up for anyone trying to enter the market.[...]

Very good point there, Bob!
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Old 05-10-2018, 22:22   #58
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Re: Help Me Pay My Way (Well, Not Quite ... )

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Originally Posted by boat_alexandra View Post
Don't forget, the older generation (50+) abused and continue to abuse the environment so that there is less left to enjoy. Consider the dying coral reefs, and heavy metals in fish.

And still most of these older cruisers insist on their engines, how disappointing, and a bad example for the next generation. Also completely unnecessary! It actually makes more work maintaining the boat!!

So I give free solar panels to young cruisers, why not? But only if I see them sail off their anchor because then they deserve something.
That’s total bunk. We cleaned up the mess that was left us back in the 60’s and 70’s. People today don’t have a clue what it was like then. Think China today.

You now have a relatively pristine environment compared to what we grew up in, but don’t seem to apreciate the hard work that went into making it that way.
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Old 05-10-2018, 23:58   #59
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Re: Help Me Pay My Way (Well, Not Quite ... )

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I don't remember doing anything like this during the 8 years I lived aboard during the 1990's. Don't remember any friends doing this either.

How did I get so far out of touch?
Key term: "1990's" ... Were you on the Internet much in the '90s? You did not get so far 'out of touch' from common sense, the Internet generation did.

Wiki: "YouTube, LLC is an American video-sharing website headquartered in San Bruno, California."

Key word: "sharing" = FREE

Human psychology: As for giving your hard-earned money to beggar strangers with expensive yachts who swim in the tropics and drink beer on sandy beaches using YOUR money, one theory proposes that some people take pleasure in charitable giving because of its enhancement of their social status. They enjoy being regarded as wealthy or generous by their peers.

That's just one theory. Personally, I will never give my money to healthy-looking lazy beggar strangers looking for handouts, and I will always consider those that do to be complete idiots.

Ps; I suggest you change the title of this thread to:

"Help Me Pay My Way (Well, Exactly That ... )"
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Old 06-10-2018, 00:25   #60
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Re: Help Me Pay My Way (Well, Not Quite ... )

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That’s total bunk. We cleaned up the mess that was left us back in the 60’s and 70’s. People today don’t have a clue what it was like then. Think China today.

You now have a relatively pristine environment compared to what we grew up in, but don’t seem to apreciate the hard work that went into making it that way.
Clean and pristine?

lmao.
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