Full Keel vs Fin Keel

[Michael Cobbe]

I had yacht with a long keel and a cutaway forefoot the proplem is prop walk. If you backout you will end backing into the berth four along. But there is a way to fix it. Put a doubled back rope around the cleat in front of boat then tie the rest amidships, we had a cleat there. Start the engine and put it in reverse then engine revs 1,000. When water starts going over the prop pull the rope in and the boat will back straight out. What I found is with the long keel if there was a strong wind gust then the boat would start to heel and then stand up.The toerail never got anywhere near the water.

[Hudson Force]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Wow! Now we know more about you. My first car was a Morris Minor. Welcome to the weird first car club. ...........

Can I join? My first car was a Hillman Minx.

[coopec43]

Originally Posted by Hudson Force

Can I join? My first car was a Hillman Minx.

I can beat you! Mine was an Austin A40

I was so desperate to become another Fangio I enrolled for a basic (very) racing driver's course. We were supposed to follow a very experienced racing driver but there were about 30 of us and towards the end of the queue things became a bit "hairy". I ran out of brakes and ran off the track but came back on about 50 m later.

[fireman182]

Originally Posted by coopec43

If we stopped a hundred drivers on the road and asked them what their ideal car is I wonder how many would say "the one I am driving".

I wonder how many skippers would say the yacht they have at anchor in a South Pacific lagoon is their idea of a great "Blue Water Cruiser"? People go with what they've got..........

Yeah I drive I dodge because I've always wanted a Dodge.

I would NEVER want to own a Ferrari, Mercedes, or Lamborghini

[goboatingnow]

My first car was an Alpha Romeo , but if asked I’d never say it’s the best car just cause I own it. !!!

[Don C L]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

My first car was an Alpha Romeo , but if asked I’d never say it’s the best car just cause I own it. !!!

My brother's first car was ALSO a Citroen and then he sold it to buy a 3 cylinder DKW! He always claimed it was the dumbest car trade he ever made. It had an emblem that said 3=6.

So are we talking about the automotive versions of full keels now?

[MicHughV]

need to keep this topic on an even keel.....otherwise someone could stand to be keeled over, keeled over dead even....I think most arguments here are now just water under the keel...

[TrentePieds]

Oh dear, what's with all these upscale modern cars?

Mine was a 1936 Ford "C". (lower photo) Mechanical brakes. My guvnor and I would make bets on how many telegraph poles would pass by after I clapped on the brakes - and that was from 30 clicks :-)

Next one, the 1953 "Deekie Wobble You" 3=6 (upper photo) was a step up.

TP

[MicHughV]

My first car was a Datsun SSS...it had a four cylinder 1,600c engine producing around 100 hp. While that was cool, it had a cluster of instruments, 6 as I recall, including the all important tachometer..., it only came with a manual box....5 speeds. I was living large, it was the poor students Ferrari.......I think my monthly car payments were $15.....
If your daddy was rich, you'd be driving in an Alfa Romeo 2000, the ultimate chick magnet of the day......alas, I was not a privileged one.

[wingssail]

1951 Ford flathead V8 (Fin Keel)

[FreeSpiritOZ]

[QUOTE=fireman182;3293128]Hey Guys,

I'm just looking for thoughts on the great modern sailing debate. Old vs New. Traditional vs modern.

Full Keel vs Fin Keel. What are the pros and cons for each?

Is the fin keel the most popular design of todays modern sailboat? Is it safe?
Strong enough for the worst ocean weather?

What are your thoughts?

I came up with a few pros and cons.

Full Keel

Pro

Wont break off
Tracks better
Protects prop
Protects Rudder

Con

Difficult to maneuver
Heavier design


Was keel design a big decision when buying your boat??

Answer - YES.

Modern yachts, fantastic Plastic, usually lighter and fin keeled, spade rudder, wiggle all over the place. If helming for 4hrs you end up sore across the shoulders because you are always correcting them. Light displacement yachts surf on top, planning, faster, uncomfortable ride in a confused seaway.

Older style, long keel, track well when you balance the sails and rig.
I can walk up to the bow adjust something, walk back and the yacht hasn't rounded up, screwed up into the wind or broached. Also being heavy displacement takes the seaway with ease. not a problem. Weather helm, lee helm ? My long keel has neutral helm, it doesn't change (So don't fall off, it will just keep sailing without you.)

It's up to you, whatever floats your boat.

[oregonian]

Hello fireman,
As a delivery skipper, and boat owner who has owned both kinds of keels, I have come to the conclusion that there are no benefits to a fin keeled sailboat when used for long distance cruising. For shorter cruises and local sailing I do not make the same statement. This is my conclusion regarding the smaller sizes of cruising sailboats. As size increases then different priorities will dictate and define the objectives.
Way too often I witness this debate where-by an opinion is expressed "pro fin keel" and "con full keel" where the fin keeled boat proponent is talking about a longer boat and disparages a full keeled boat that is MUCH shorter. Just a few examples: Steve Dashew talking about how a Columbia 50 rides out a storm compared to a Tahiti ketch 30. The comparison of an Alajuela 38 to a Bavaria 45. And. I once witnessed a potential buyer of a Westsail talking to a broker. The broker stated how he once sailed to Tahiti from Hawaii at the same time as a Westsail and beat the Westsail by 7 days. After MUCH prodding the broker admitted he was part of a 5 man crew on a Swan 65. The Westsail was a 32 and sailed by a couple I knew well. Both in their 70's. GAWD! As it turned out the buyer bought a W-42 and sailed around the world.
A number of posters on this forum are guilty of the same type of comparisons.

Thank you

[molump]

The “best” full keel (and one of my favorite boats) that I’ve owned in over fifty years of sailing is the Fisher 37 Ketch -rigged MS. I’m 63 and have owned and sailed a number of sailboats. The Old Fishers can go anywhere in the world ( except a shallow anchorage) and do it in decent comfort. Had a large Irwin with a fin keel before that and she was fairly strong in rough blue water. She drew 5’6” but was forgiving in open waters.
I’m currently on what I believe will be my final sailboat...a 1983 Pearson 303. She’s a fin keel and rated as a coastal cruiser. She’s good for what I want/need as I’m aging and find myself slower and a little more “arthritic” these days.... she’s rigged for single hand but is comfortable enough for me and a single crew member. She doesn’t point well but the trade-off in having a “a large” 30 footer and simply skipping up and down the SE coastal waters and back bays as well as the ICW at times ( in the US ) is acceptable at this stage in life.
All of this to say the following: what is it you want to do with the boat you’ll put money, time, and sweat into? The keel design ( mostly ) doesn’t define the boat. The keel along with the hull design, rig and engine are all compromises in one way or another. They are “pieced” together to bring a particular boat to a particular “conclusion”. Each time, on the boats mentioned above and others, I’ve found the boat chosen at each stage in life has fulfilled my wants and needs. Look and read about the particular manufacturer designs according to make, model, year and upgrades, downgrades or customizations.

[goboatingnow]

To correct FreespiritOz list

Advantages of fin and spade

Hydrodynamically more efficient
Better rudder control
Better rudder control down wave less stalling
More efficient tacking and gybing
Control going astern

More choice of boats new or 2nd hand
Hull form tends to have more volume per length

Easy to repair no inaccessible voids

I could easily trim my Bene 393 and leave the wheel but then again almost everyone has an AP these days.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by MicHughV

My first car was a Datsun SSS...it had a four cylinder 1,600c engine producing around 100 hp. While that was cool, it had a cluster of instruments, 6 as I recall, including the all important tachometer..., it only came with a manual box....5 speeds. I was living large, it was the poor students Ferrari.......I think my monthly car payments were $15.....
If your daddy was rich, you'd be driving in an Alfa Romeo 2000, the ultimate chick magnet of the day......alas, I was not a privileged one.

In case anyone is wondering what is a Datsun SSS, it is the 510. A brilliant car; basically a Japanese knock-off of the BMW 2002 (incidentally what I was driving during my undergraduate years). The Datsun 510 was almost unbeatable in its class in SCCA competition, for some years.


I always envied the 5-speed box. The 2002 only came with a 4-speed.