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Old 24-04-2024, 07:30   #1
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Question Why is this schooner so cheap?

Hello everyone!

Non-sailor here, but hopefully in the future. I like looking at the boats on Yatchworld for daydreaming purposes, but I found this schooner (which I really like schooners and ketchs) that is very cheap. Link here:

https://www.yachtworld.com/yacht/198...ooner-9165510/

I'm not planning to buy this boat or anything, just looking to learn. Why is it so cheap? I was under the impression that schooners are a much higher end rig style that you usually can't find for less than 150k. Is it because it's steel and not fibreglass? Does that make such a huge difference?

Apologies for my naivety, I'm just very curious haha.

Thank you!
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Old 24-04-2024, 16:18   #2
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Re: Why is this schooner so cheap?

Hi, there,

Well, it might be because "rust never sleeps". With both aluminum and steel construction, dirt plus salty ocean air can equal pitting via oxidation that can lead to loss of hull integrity. On most boats it is really hard to find and inspect all of it. Replacing plates of steel, and getting the insulation and coatings right, isn't cheap. Steel is expensive and most of the wrecks on reefs that I have seen are steel. However, fiberglass would have broken up and be elsewhere.

The engine's 40+ yrs. old. No indication of the # of hours, you'd at least want to do an engine oil analysis. Plus, she may be underpowered, no indication of the displacement of the boat. The heavier it is, the more lacking in light air performance, the more motoring one would do.

Schooner rigs, some people prefer them, but if you look at modern 50 footers, you'll see that they are more often sloops or cutters. Now, my bias is towards fin keel over full keel, and sloop or cutter over split rig. Ime, the latter go better on the wind, and with modern sail handling equipment, are simpler to deal with on the wind; in our miles of ocean sailing, while we prefer to be off the wind, broad reaching, we have often found ourselves on the wind, and the ability to do that better without motoring, is useful (imo).

She's probably dark and cavy below. That's okay if you find it "cosy". Maybe not so much if you like it lighter, although fresh cream coloured paint below can help that tremendously. I would expect it to be good for sea berths.

Does she have decent holding tanks? Can they be emptied at sea? When was the picture taken? Does she still look like that? How old are the sails? Many factors affect the asking prices for boats, but I would not assume she is a bargain. Especially if the hull is unsound, the engine on its last legs, and the sails not fit for use.

Ann
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Old 24-04-2024, 16:38   #3
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Re: Why is this schooner so cheap?

A steel boat that old is a potential nightmare at best, a catastrophe at worst.
But even if the hull is absolutely sound, there'd be concerns about the engine age, the rigging, sails, systems--you're looking at 30k just to update the rigging and sails, unless it's been done in the last two decades, which the price doesn't seem to indicate.
Also, please don't confuse that with an actual schooner. It's a "staysail schooner," which means there's not a single gaff on the whole thing, and gaffs are what make the schooner rig what it truly is. As it is, it's really just a two-masted sloop.
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Old 24-04-2024, 16:41   #4
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Re: Why is this schooner so cheap?

Ha, I love it. Thanks for posting... fun boat to look at.

As Ann says, there are a thousand reasons why it may be reduced. States that the owner built her, so she also doesn't have the pedigree some boats have.
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Old 24-04-2024, 16:50   #5
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Re: Why is this schooner so cheap?

Beautiful boat . . .
So, if I had a dependable crew of indentured 3 sailors, mechanic/rigger, day laborer, and a young, pretty European chef, I would definitely consider this boat.
Rognvald

P.S. Did I mention a Royal Navy Cocked Hat??? R
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Old 24-04-2024, 16:51   #6
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Re: Why is this schooner so cheap?

Looks like she's spent a lot of her life in fresh water, that's a plus. But there are big maintenance costs too, and where do you keep her? The performance of the rig is not great, but still, I think she's kind of a cool boat. I'd go check her out.

Welcome aboard by the way!
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Old 24-04-2024, 16:56   #7
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Re: Why is this schooner so cheap?

It's ferrocement, under "other details" it says;
Quote:
The mortar was made of five different grades of pure oven dried crushed quartz silica sand. The Portland was a special saltwater proof cement manufactured by St. Lawrence Cement Company to Type #5 specs, containing volcanic fly ash. Chromium Trioxide anti galvanic agent was added to the mix water.
After completion of the hull, a large polyethylene envelope was placed over the entire structure, and a portable steam plant was brought in with an operator to maintain 100% humidity at 180 degree for 24 hours, in order to ensure reaching maximum technical concrete strength.
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Old 24-04-2024, 17:04   #8
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Re: Why is this schooner so cheap?

a lot of boats are " cheap" to buy, but "extremely expensive" to repair and maintain.

nothing wrong with steel per se, subject to survey and inspection, off course.

a boat like this requires any future owner to be a DIY artist....and a good one at that...
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Old 24-04-2024, 17:07   #9
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Re: Why is this schooner so cheap?

I'd be very surprised if the current condition matched the pics.
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Old 24-04-2024, 17:09   #10
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Re: Why is this schooner so cheap?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Calif.Ted View Post
It's ferrocement, under "other details" it says;
That may be the main reason.
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Old 24-04-2024, 17:17   #11
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Re: Why is this schooner so cheap?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Calif.Ted View Post
It's ferrocement, under "other details" it says;
DING DING DING... we have the correct answer

I missed this in the description.
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Old 24-04-2024, 17:50   #12
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Re: Why is this schooner so cheap?

I don't know anything about the correct way to build a ferrocement boat, but his description sounds impressive. Maybe this is one of the good ones.
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Old 24-04-2024, 17:57   #13
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Re: Why is this schooner so cheap?

Back in the early '70s Samson Marine published a book of Ferro designs.
They were all designed by Cecil Norris.
He was a big proponent of Ferrocement.
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Old 24-04-2024, 18:11   #14
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Re: Why is this schooner so cheap?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don C L View Post
I don't know anything about the correct way to build a ferrocement boat, but his description sounds impressive. Maybe this is one of the good ones.
This is one of the main reasons they don't sell/sell for less. Whether they're built well or not:
There aren't many people that know a lot about them.
There aren't many surveyors that will survey them.
There aren't many companies that will insure them.
At least this has been my experience.
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Old 24-04-2024, 18:41   #15
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Re: Why is this schooner so cheap?

Y'all are right! It was the OP's question asking if it was because it is steel and not fiberglass that led me astray. Sorry, everyone.

If the vessel is currently insured, if one were to want to buy it, s/he would have to see if the insurance could be taken over. It may be a really good one, but how are they to know.

We saw a ferro boat on the beach in Mexico, it got all bashed in on its quarter. That particular one was not really strong. May have been home built. Home built is a serious worry with ferrocement.

Ann
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