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Old 30-05-2021, 09:07   #61
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Re: Broken Lagoon

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Originally Posted by owly View Post
Sadly this is the the rule in modern boat building, not the exception. If you bother to read David Pascoe's writing... a famous marine surveyor deceased in 2018, but his articles kept alive on the internet, it becomes very obvious that sloppy workmanship in factory built boats is pervasive.

I too, have spent quite a bit of time reading David Pascoe's writing. I would sell my soul to the devil, (if he didn't have it already...) to have discovered his page before I sold our Trojan. I never would have sold it.


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Old 31-05-2021, 17:58   #62
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Re: Broken Lagoon

This whole issue is a result of the constant and never ending pressure from buyers for “European quality at a Chinese price”
I’ve got little sympathy, it’s why I left boat building.
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Old 31-05-2021, 22:05   #63
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Re: Broken Lagoon

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Todays production boats are not meant to be grounded any longer. But they are faster.
Disagree - some are. Specifically those that include furniture as a structural element not an addition. some builders bond the furniture elements in the build as a part of a monocoque construction method.
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Old 01-06-2021, 00:17   #64
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Re: Broken Lagoon

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Disagree - some are. Specifically those that include furniture as a structural element not an addition. some builders bond the furniture elements in the build as a part of a monocoque construction method.
agree. and that is weak point of boats like lagoon that owners should be aware of. Although we still made it without scratch from very ugly grounding after dragging for 500m onto rocks.

THANKS to all that hepled us out that interesting day
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Old 01-06-2021, 08:02   #65
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Re: Broken Lagoon

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This whole issue is a result of the constant and never ending pressure from buyers for “European quality at a Chinese price”
I’ve got little sympathy, it’s why I left boat building.
Yup. Those vids by Lagoon posted previously made a big deal about the sustainability of the faux wood paneling. The true fact is that this is the cheapest stuff available. I wonder if it’s the same manufacturer making the plywood bulkheads?
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Old 01-06-2021, 08:47   #66
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Re: Broken Lagoon

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This whole issue is a result of the constant and never ending pressure from buyers for “European quality at a Chinese price”
I’ve got little sympathy, it’s why I left boat building.

it's called competition... It's the entire foundation of our capitalist system... The results are not always great.
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Old 01-06-2021, 10:28   #67
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Re: Broken Lagoon

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This whole issue is a result of the constant and never ending pressure from buyers for “European quality at a Chinese price”
I’ve got little sympathy, it’s why I left boat building.
How much would properly constructed bulkheads add to the cost of an L450? What Chinese-made catamaran is Lagoon competing against?
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Old 01-06-2021, 15:03   #68
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Re: Broken Lagoon

Bulkheads fix would be marginal compared to the cost of a new 450.
The reference was to Chinese pricing and not Chinese made cats.
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Old 01-06-2021, 17:46   #69
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Re: Broken Lagoon

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Bulkheads fix would be marginal compared to the cost of a new 450.
So, cost savings is not really the reason for the bad bulkheads, since good bulkheads would not cost more.

This cat new is a cool $1M. Chinese pricing? More like Euro pricing for Chinese quality!

It is not impossible to produce a quality product at a reasonable price. Lots of examples in many industries (Toyota?).
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Old 01-06-2021, 18:28   #70
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Re: Broken Lagoon

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So, cost savings is not really the reason for the bad bulkheads, since good bulkheads would not cost more.

This cat new is a cool $1M. Chinese pricing? More like Euro pricing for Chinese quality!

It is not impossible to produce a quality product at a reasonable price. Lots of examples in many industries (Toyota?).

HH Catamarans are made in China. Do you think they are a poor quality boat?
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Old 01-06-2021, 18:55   #71
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Re: Broken Lagoon

And where did HH get their IP from ?
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Old 01-06-2021, 19:23   #72
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Re: Broken Lagoon

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And where did HH get their IP from ?

I would put my money on Paul Hakes (and many others) their COO from his experience as a leading race boat builder.


And before you ask about their IP for the design? It's from Morrelli & Melvin. They also did the Gunboats.
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Old 01-06-2021, 19:40   #73
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Re: Broken Lagoon

Yep, like ssangyong trucks with Mercedes engines. If you want quality which do you buy the original or the knock off ?
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Old 01-06-2021, 19:55   #74
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Re: Broken Lagoon

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So, cost savings is not really the reason for the bad bulkheads, since good bulkheads would not cost more.

This cat new is a cool $1M. Chinese pricing? More like Euro pricing for Chinese quality!

It is not impossible to produce a quality product at a reasonable price. Lots of examples in many industries (Toyota?).
Better materials and practices would cost more, even if the difference appears to be minimal.

A guy I know used to build production monohulls. He used polyester resin because it was cheaper. The cost difference to use vinylester would have been a couple of thousand dollars back then, around 1%. But it made economic sense, because nobody could SEE the extra value in different resin. He wouldn't have been able to sell the boat for a higher price, so basically that cost would have come off his profit margin.
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Old 02-06-2021, 04:53   #75
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Re: Broken Lagoon

I see this as more of a design flaw. Structurally not able to do it's job. The boats are falling apart. Groupe Beneteau is a large company, most likely with some very qualified engineers. But they missed the mark on this one, and I am sure they can trace it back to find the blame. ( we will most likely never see the the outcome of any internal investigation)
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