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Old 28-05-2021, 07:24   #31
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Re: Broken Lagoon

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Originally Posted by mike mck View Post
Oz If Parlay were the only 45 Lagoon with this issue I would agree with your statement however there are multiple 45 Lagoons in the same yard in Panama with the same issue. This seems to eliminate the Hurricane theory and point to a design or manufacturing problem.
As to Colin not blaming Lagoon I would suggest if he did their cooperation would end and may create legal issues for both. He just wants to get his boat back on the water and continue his adventure. Blaming Lagoon will do nothing to advance that goal in the short term.
Just my 2cents.

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Old 28-05-2021, 08:01   #32
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Re: Broken Lagoon

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Originally Posted by ozsailer View Post
The Lagoon was a badly Hurricane damaged vessel with a raft of issues caused by the Hurricane. If you watch the series of videos at no time does the owner, who is a very talented person at no time blames Lagoon for the issue. Colin contacted Lagoon for advice and is being supported in obtaining details on how to repair his boat and is in personal contact with the naval achitects who are assisiting him in his repairs. You cannot in any way shape of form blame Lagoon for the issue based on the boats history yet Lagoon is assisting with technical information. That does not sound like a company that leave people stranded.


Ozsailer
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What about the broken 450 sitting next to Colin’s boat in the same yard? No hurricane damage to that one. And the same problems. Colin has determined that the structural issues with his boat predated the hurricane damage. It is easy to see that this is a design/manufacturing deficiency.

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Old 28-05-2021, 08:11   #33
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Re: Broken Lagoon

Recently started on the Parlay series (what else is there to do in lockdown??) and while I have no doubt there are series bulkhead issues with some lagoons, I had also wondered if their failure had something to do with the water creeping in from that forward locker and rotting the bulkhead ply itself...

Looks like Colin’s the right man with the right attitude for the job; have to say I did cover my eyes when he was sliding beneath the cockpit floor as they lowered it in order to get the Sika in. Yikes.

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Old 28-05-2021, 08:30   #34
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Re: Broken Lagoon

I experienced the weak construction of the new lagoons (the ones with vertical windows in the saloon) when participating in the Backpacker transport between Colombia and Panama.... a lagoon 50 hybride suffered structure damages on the same voyage my Slipstream 50 with 23 passengers on board had no problems.... Lagoons are made for 10 years of charter in favorable weather conditions,,,,,
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Old 28-05-2021, 08:37   #35
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Re: Broken Lagoon

Hello,

This structural problem of sagging side partitions ONLY concerns the L450s, all models included, there is a Facebook page in French and English on this subject, the Hisse et Oh forum (French) talks about it and on this site, owners of this boat described very well the concerns and the symptoms of these faults which are, I recall, only on the L450. Of course, there are other Lagoon models to strengthen or modify to allow them to face classic situations encountered during a round the world or a transatlantic.

Lagoon has given the instructions to have boats repaired at Lagoon's expense whose owners report themselves (!) Or are aware of structural problems which often begin with a standing rigging which relaxes and for which it is important not to re-tighten it but to advise Lagoon of the problem or cracks appearing on the nacelle.


The compression exerted on the mast foot during the forces compresses the lateral reinforcements in the hulls and tends to make the hulls rise towards the mast ...


This defect also exists on boats which have never left the marina since 90% of the L450 do not leave the marina, it is known, or go out very little at sea and for short distances but it can remain invisible as long as we don't use the boat too hard. If she has sailed with strong winds or heavy seas, these faults will appear quickly.


Of course if a boat as been under a hurricane, those problems arrive more quickly...


I am attaching a PDF in French but with photos describing the problem that happened to one of the owners of this boat, which has been repaired by Lagoon (I suppose a few more kilos for a result that I hope is correct).
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Lagoon 450 faiblesse cloison mât.pdf (1.85 MB, 302 views)
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Old 28-05-2021, 08:38   #36
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Re: Broken Lagoon

I've watched the Parlay Revival videos from the beginning. I was impressed with the work they did on the hulls, and was dismayed when he discovered the bulkhead damage. Exactly how this can be easily fixed is beyond my ability to comprehend.

My understanding of how boats are built is this:

1. They mold the hulls.
2. The interior, including bulkheads, is installed.
3. They put the deck on top of all this. Some boats have a liner, so that the bulkhead(s) fits into a groove in the liner or deck.

I can't begin to imagine how they can replace a bulkhead, without removing the deck, replacing the bulkhead, and then putting the deck back on.

Nomad
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Old 28-05-2021, 08:48   #37
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Re: Broken Lagoon

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Originally Posted by Nomad57 View Post
I can't begin to imagine how they can replace a bulkhead, without removing the deck, replacing the bulkhead, and then putting the deck back on.

Nomad

You're right for the building procedure, but to repair, it seems Lagoon add some wood layers with a mix of resin after removing / re-aligning bulkhead.
It is more a "patch" than a real construction when repairing, fixing by Lagoon.
Parlay cannot fully repair the bulkhead as a new one, they must add some plywood, glass tissues and resin
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Old 28-05-2021, 10:17   #38
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Re: Broken Lagoon

W.C. Fields said something like this "the resale value is rapidly depleting"
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Old 28-05-2021, 10:45   #39
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Re: Broken Lagoon

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Originally Posted by Phil_Fr View Post
You're right for the building procedure, but to repair, it seems Lagoon add some wood layers with a mix of resin after removing / re-aligning bulkhead.
It is more a "patch" than a real construction when repairing, fixing by Lagoon.
Parlay cannot fully repair the bulkhead as a new one, they must add some plywood, glass tissues and resin
And Colin wants to cross an ocean with this? I sincerely wish him well. Then again, I was skeptical about the Expedition Evans, and they seem to have nailed that boat back together well. I stand in awe, of what they have accomplished. OK, so I'm sitting down...

Thanks for the reply.

Regards,

Nomad
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Old 28-05-2021, 11:29   #40
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Re: Broken Lagoon

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Originally Posted by Nomad57 View Post
I can't begin to imagine how they can replace a bulkhead, without removing the deck, replacing the bulkhead, and then putting the deck back on.

Nomad
Remove the damaged parts of the old bulkhead, fit a new bulkhead (it won’t fit into the liner groove, but sized correctly will cover the same area as the existing bulkhead) and then attach the bulkhead to the hull with biax cloth - not just big globs of glue.

Stronger than the original and doesn’t require the deck to come up. If done correctly, can also be hidden behind trim and fittings.

N
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Old 28-05-2021, 12:21   #41
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Re: Broken Lagoon

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil_Fr View Post
I am attaching a PDF in French but with photos describing the problem that happened to one of the owners of this boat, which has been repaired by Lagoon (I suppose a few more kilos for a result that I hope is correct).
The document shows that they knew about the problem and modified the bulkhead construction back in 2012 !

Colin's boat is post-2012 and still failed... but it has gone through a lot of stress.
There was one early episode (in 2018) before he found the structural failure that showed how they tensioned the rigging and the problems they had.
I don't think they realized at the time what the real problem was... ;-)

https://youtu.be/pDHzOyg8nIs?t=321
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Old 28-05-2021, 14:59   #42
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Re: Broken Lagoon

The issue with the broken bulkhead is limited to the Lagoon 450 and is a result of insufficient stiffening of the forward bulkhead. Apparently Lagoon are working on a solution but this will cost them big time.
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Old 28-05-2021, 15:32   #43
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Re: Broken Lagoon

I know nothing about Lagoons and not much more about Cat construction in general. I have watched most of the Parlay series.

What is clear from the video - and not mentioned so far in this thread, the evidence suggests that much of the structural failures in the boat appear to have started well before the Hurricane damage

There is a clear incentive for Colin to butter up Lagoon and accept their help gracefully - there’s no chance of a ‘claim’ against the manufacturer in a hurricane damaged boat.
Having said that, I see no reason why Parlay won’t come out stronger than new. Colin and team are clearly getting better at glassing but he wouldn’t claim to be an expert - I admire the team and effort but still have reservations on the strength/ weight ratio they achieve.

I think it’s reassuring that they don’t appear to be too concerned about wight and are concentrating on strength.
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Old 28-05-2021, 15:57   #44
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Re: Broken Lagoon

Quote:
Originally Posted by Americanrancher View Post
What about the broken 450 sitting next to Colin’s boat in the same yard? No hurricane damage to that one. And the same problems. Colin has determined that the structural issues with his boat predated the hurricane damage. It is easy to see that this is a design/manufacturing deficiency.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GBR134 View Post
What is clear from the video - and not mentioned so far in this thread, the evidence suggests that much of the structural failures in the boat appear to have started well before the Hurricane damage
It's even mentioned on the same page, just a few posts above yours
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Old 28-05-2021, 16:03   #45
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Re: Broken Lagoon

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Originally Posted by Mapuado View Post
The issue with the broken bulkhead is limited to the Lagoon 450 and is a result of insufficient stiffening of the forward bulkhead. Apparently Lagoon are working on a solution but this will cost them big time.
other thing that may be an issue - it appears they use same thickness of bulkheads as say for L400. And this is 50% heavier boat. And larger. Under port front doors, where width is the of bulkhead is the smallest, width of bulkhead on 450 is ~ 1/2 of what is on L 400.
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