Cruisers Forum
 


Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on Cruisers Forums. Advertise Here
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 29-07-2021, 11:54   #406
Registered User

Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 810
Re: Broken Lagoon

Quote:
Originally Posted by boatpoker View Post
I also have about 150 photos of a 450 where outer hull skin varied in thickness from 2mm to about 3/8".

In this infrared, the white areas are less than 2mm thick and moisture levels in the glass are in the very high range. . This was a boat just delivered to Canada on it's own bottom. They could not figure out where the water was coming from so I was hored to find out. Turns out is was leaching right through the very thin glass around the sail drives (an uncored area).

PS. I drilled holes and used a hooked screwdriver and black tape to measure thickness.

These poor quality construction feature/quality/engineering issues are not unique to Beneteau built cats. I've seen them in Bene monohulls,Jeanneau, Dufour, Bavaria and Hanse. I found a 4'X2' area in the bottom of a new Hanse (that had never been in the water) that I could flex the bottom over an inch with my hand pressure. The broker/dealer told me fiberglass is supposed to be flexible !

This is horrifying!! 2mm thickness is NOTHING. .078 inches!!! Of course the issue is hired help and quality control. These things however flow down from the top..."Sh_t runs downhill" as they say, so it all reflects poor leadership, and a lack of commitment to quality control. Having had employees myself, I can speak with some authority that you cannot let your guard down. It is up to YOU to make sure they produce quality work. Lagoon obviously lacks this top down control....... all it takes is ONE weak link. In a business structure with multiple levels, each level MUST monitor the level below aggressively at all times to make sure they are actually doing their job. That is NOT happening at Group Beneteau or Lagoon........"heads need to roll". If you are not doing your job... which in many cases means making sure the guy below you is doing his job, you do not deserve to hold that job. Good execs keep a finger on the pulse at every level below them, but what they actually do, they do through the established channels. When this structure breaks down, you are headed for rocks and shoals... for chaos. This is what apparently happened at Lagoon. It is time to clean house from top to bottom!
owly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-07-2021, 12:20   #407
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2021
Boat: Hunter 40.5
Posts: 81
Re: Broken Lagoon

Quote:
Originally Posted by boatpoker View Post
I also have about 150 photos of a 450 where outer hull skin varied in thickness from 2mm to about 3/8".

In this infrared, the white areas are less than 2mm thick and moisture levels in the glass are in the very high range. . This was a boat just delivered to Canada on it's own bottom. They could not figure out where the water was coming from so I was hored to find out. Turns out is was leaching right through the very thin glass around the sail drives (an uncored area).

PS. I drilled holes and used a hooked screwdriver and black tape to measure thickness.

These poor quality construction feature/quality/engineering issues are not unique to Beneteau built cats. I've seen them in Bene monohulls,Jeanneau, Dufour, Bavaria and Hanse. I found a 4'X2' area in the bottom of a new Hanse (that had never been in the water) that I could flex the bottom over an inch with my hand pressure. The broker/dealer told me fiberglass is supposed to be flexible !
That is incredible. I was extremely relieved when I replaced the ball valves with seacocks on my *gasp* hunter that the hull was never less than 3/4" thick.

I always figured Beneteau was the upgrade in production boats.
Sandy Frank is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-07-2021, 16:32   #408
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 1,636
Re: Broken Lagoon

Quote:
Originally Posted by boatpoker View Post
They could not figure out where the water was coming from so I was hored to find out.
People are seldom so forthright about their profession
redneckrob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-07-2021, 16:33   #409
smj
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2007
Boat: TRT 1200
Posts: 7,331
Re: Broken Lagoon

Quote:
Originally Posted by redneckrob View Post
People are seldom so forthright about their profession


Now that was funny![emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]
smj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-07-2021, 17:03   #410
Marine Service Provider
 
boatpoker's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Port Credit, Ontario or Bahamas
Boat: Benford 38 Fantail Cruiser
Posts: 7,232
Re: Broken Lagoon

Quote:
Originally Posted by redneckrob View Post
People are seldom so forthright about their profession



oops slip of the finger but I do somewhat agree about the profession in genersl
__________________
If you're not laughing, you're not doin' it right.
boatpoker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-07-2021, 09:29   #411
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2021
Posts: 78
Re: Broken Lagoon

Wait, aren’t these hulls laid up dry with cloth and resin injection? If so, how can there be any spots too thin, unless a whole area was not laid in according to design? Or did they go back to using a chopper gun on these?
SV WELDER is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-07-2021, 09:57   #412
Marine Service Provider
 
boatpoker's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Port Credit, Ontario or Bahamas
Boat: Benford 38 Fantail Cruiser
Posts: 7,232
Re: Broken Lagoon

Quote:
Originally Posted by SV WELDER View Post
Wait, aren’t these hulls laid up dry with cloth and resin injection? If so, how can there be any spots too thin, unless a whole area was not laid in according to design? Or did they go back to using a chopper gun on these?

They ain't the only ones. How about this Regal powerboat bottom with 3 sq' with no glass at all.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	QUALITY CONTROL.gif
Views:	118
Size:	64.1 KB
ID:	242993  
__________________
If you're not laughing, you're not doin' it right.
boatpoker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-07-2021, 10:38   #413
Registered User
 
Sailmonkey's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Houston
Boat: ‘01 Catana 401
Posts: 9,626
Re: Broken Lagoon

Quote:
Originally Posted by SV WELDER View Post
Wait, aren’t these hulls laid up dry with cloth and resin injection? If so, how can there be any spots too thin, unless a whole area was not laid in according to design? Or did they go back to using a chopper gun on these?


Resin injection is expensive. These hulls are likely laid up with sheets of cloth, buckets of resin and rollers.
Sailmonkey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-07-2021, 11:05   #414
Marine Service Provider
 
boatpoker's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Port Credit, Ontario or Bahamas
Boat: Benford 38 Fantail Cruiser
Posts: 7,232
Re: Broken Lagoon

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sailmonkey View Post
Resin injection is expensive. These hulls are likely laid up with sheets of cloth, buckets of resin and rollers.
I can't find my photos but do a liitle online research on the two Bertram resin infused boats that came apart on their delivery cruise, One of them sank when the entire bow delaminated. The other one made it with sheets of glass hanging off the topsides
__________________
If you're not laughing, you're not doin' it right.
boatpoker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-07-2021, 11:36   #415
Registered User
 
Sailmonkey's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Houston
Boat: ‘01 Catana 401
Posts: 9,626
Re: Broken Lagoon

Quote:
Originally Posted by boatpoker View Post
I can't find my photos but do a liitle online research on the two Bertram resin infused boats that came apart on their delivery cruise, One of them sank when the entire bow delaminated. The other one made it with sheets of glass hanging off the topsides


I’ve seen the latter……those were infused?!? Wow!
Sailmonkey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-07-2021, 15:35   #416
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: NZL - Currently Run Aground Ashore..
Boat: Sail & Power for over 35 years, experience cruising the Eastern Caribbean, Western Med, and more
Posts: 2,129
Re: Broken Lagoon

And yet people (and insurance companies) have concerns about home built glass over ply construction being of poor quality...

I agree they can have their own issues too, but the thinking of 'let's buy a well known fibreglass production boat to avoid issues' isn't necessarily the panacea that it should be.

jmh2002 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-07-2021, 17:06   #417
smj
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2007
Boat: TRT 1200
Posts: 7,331
Re: Broken Lagoon

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmh2002 View Post
And yet people (and insurance companies) have concerns about home built glass over ply construction being of poor quality...

I agree they can have their own issues too, but the thinking of 'let's buy a well known fibreglass production boat to avoid issues' isn't necessarily the panacea that it should be.



Well known fiberglass production boat......that be the polyester resin with the balsa wood cored vessel?
smj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-07-2021, 17:36   #418
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: NZL - Currently Run Aground Ashore..
Boat: Sail & Power for over 35 years, experience cruising the Eastern Caribbean, Western Med, and more
Posts: 2,129
Re: Broken Lagoon

Quote:
Originally Posted by smj View Post
Well known fiberglass production boat......that be the polyester resin with the balsa wood cored vessel?
Yes
jmh2002 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-07-2021, 19:54   #419
Registered User

Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 810
Re: Broken Lagoon

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmh2002 View Post
And yet people (and insurance companies) have concerns about home built glass over ply construction being of poor quality...

I agree they can have their own issues too, but the thinking of 'let's buy a well known fibreglass production boat to avoid issues' isn't necessarily the panacea that it should be.


The men who decide coverage policies are only human, and their policies are often NOT based on reality, but on their own prejudices. The classic example and one of my pet peeves is tire shops that steadfastly refuse to lubricate the threads on the studs when they install tires because their insurance company will not allow them to.... really??? Do they think if you oil the threads the nuts will come off and the tire fall off??? Idiots!! You can't get proper torque if you install them dry. I have to take the lugs off and lubricate the threads after I leave. There are ignorant ******** in every profession!
owly is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
lagoon

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
General Info: lagoon fridge/freezer broken doors fix how to ers61 Lagoon Catamarans 3 11-12-2019 20:35
Through Hull-Valve Broken or Not-Broken? Jado27 Monohull Sailboats 15 16-03-2016 06:14
Water use gauge on Lagoon 380 broken gspeak Plumbing Systems and Fixtures 1 02-12-2013 09:16

Advertise Here


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 21:31.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.