Broken Lagoon

[fillintheblank]

Originally Posted by more

You think, Customer for charter want Lagoon. Why because is big , spacious cheap. easy work and stay in charter 10-15 year.
Mono max 7 years. Lagoon 45 make in week 7-15000 € and f---ing 1 don't have problem in Croatia. why becouse this boat never be on the wind over 30 knots and wave over 3-4 meter. and sail maybe 5% charter life, usually motoring 2-4 hour in day and rest stay in marina and maybe 3-5 hour in the bay for a swim. simple lagoon is money factory vs Outremer, balance nautitech Lagoon 62-67 is a mistake for business but good catamaran .

Your right, they want lagoons for chartering, great size boat for the money. But dont charter boats already have a stigma attached as worn out?

I see this as a mileage thing, sure you can buy a 20 year old car with 10k miles, or a 20 year old car with 200k miles. it does not mean the 10k mile car wont have the same problems the 200k one does once it gets the mileage. I am not saying all lagoon 450s will have this problem, but you cant say its a problem from over 30 knots of wind, or 3-4 meter seas only either.

As I stated in another reply, this my opinion. Yes I think it will hurt the value of every lagoon.

[more]

Originally Posted by fillintheblank

But dont charter boats already have a stigma attached as worn out?
I am not saying all lagoon 450s will have this problem, but you cant say its a problem from over 30 knots of wind, or 3-4 meter seas only either.

As I stated in another reply, this my opinion. Yes I think it will hurt the value of every lagoon.

yes this is a problem with momentum force. if lagoon all life stay in the marina and don't jump over heavy sea normally bulkhead dont broke.
Can be lagoon commercial made better, I don't think so. Lagoon made wide and strong with pvc foam core ,vinyl ester, epoxy tabed be simple to exspensive and charter company dont buy this boat and this is over 95% market maybe 99% i newer meet 1 lagoon owner buy new. and not be in charter. do you know 1 lagoon buy new for private use

i forget i multimillionaire from Austria maybe is heavy 20-50 mil € buy new lagoon 450 S ordered 2018 delivered 2020 septrember not be in charter 2020 but this year is on charter market except august he privately use. Also this milioner like € $ more maybe from me and you.

[fillintheblank]

Originally Posted by more

Can be lagoon commercial made better, I don't think so. Lagoon made wide and strong with pvc foam core ,vinyl ester, epoxy tabed be simple to exspensive and charter company dont buy this boat and this is over 95% market maybe 99%

I agree they make good boats for the dollar/pound/euro but I do think they could make them a little better. The bulk head could be 2 or 3 pieces of ply, plus tabbed into the hull. This along I think would make all the difference. The issue if you ask me is the hulls are twisting/rotating in relation to the bridge deck. It uses the bulk head to resist this, and having a big door in it causes all the stress to be in one side of the bulk head. Fix that as well, with more layers of ply on new boats.

[CatNewBee]

I think, this will be an ongoing discussion for years, people want to discount the price and get a cheap cat and owners not selling below the value.

Sold a couple of cars I owned in my life, first calls are always 'what is best price'. Usually dealer from eastern countries trying to make a bargain. Of course there will be stirring the pot, mainly from people either trying to squeeze some repair money out of Lagoon and people never possessed one beating around the busch, while looking for a cheap cat.

I think Lagoon will find a way to fix the major issues by its dealer network (they aren't liable for warranty repairs anyway, they give a margin to the dealers what covers all upcomming warranty work as flat rate, quite clever).

There may be some claims from the dealers at the courts if they can prove design flaws, so it is not a warranty issue. Curious how it will play out in the end, maybe a flat rate per boat and the dealers have to deal with the customers and the repairs.

[more]

Originally Posted by fillintheblank

I agree they make good boats for the dollar/pound/euro but I do think they could make them a little better. The bulk head could be 2 or 3 pieces of ply, plus tabbed into the hull. This along I think would make all the difference. The issue if you ask me is the hulls are twisting/rotating in relation to the bridge deck. It uses the bulk head to resist this, and having a big door in it causes all the stress to be in one side of the bulk head. Fix that as well, with more layers of ply on new boats.

and you move the cracking point from bulkhead to inner 2-3 mm thick hull.
Lagoon must lose weight and shrink + normally use Robust lightweight panels with foam or honeycomb cores.

[SV WELDER]

Originally Posted by Rennsail

That shaggy bloke is Jamie. And I totally agree. He's been the only constant on the boat since about episode 4. Colin is a SUPER capable guy and one of the few Lagoon owners that could actually accomplish the task. But even Colin would have been severely stymied in his efforts with out Jamie.



What is also interesting is there is (was) a different lagoon 450 owner that tracked down Parlay in Panama, sailed to Linton Bay and hauled out right next door. I think his name is David. He doesn't post to Youtube as frequently, but has gotten Colin to come aboard and offer advice. His family has already returned to Texas. He could be looking at months if not years of dirty, sweaty glass work if he can't find his own version of a Jamie.

What I wouldn’t give for a Jamie!! Is he sent from above or being paid or? What’s going on there lol.

[Factor]

Originally Posted by CatNewBee

I think Lagoon will find a way to fix the major issues by its dealer network (they aren't liable for warranty repairs anyway, they give a margin to the dealers what covers all upcomming warranty work as flat rate, quite clever)..

Not entirely true, in Australia the Consumer law would indemnify the dealer and make the manufacturer ultimately responsible

[more]

Originally Posted by Factor

Not entirely true, in Australia the Consumer law would indemnify the dealer and make the manufacturer ultimately responsible

Also not thru, Lagoon don't sale boat in Australia. Lagoon don't sale boat outside France. Lagoon sale boat company from Australia with delivery only in France, all documents are cleared in La Rochelle,France.

[owly]

Originally Posted by fillintheblank

Your right I have not crawled in every model of lagoon, or for that matter even one. I have seen a few vids of the bilges in other model lagoons, I have seen vids of other makes and sizes of other makes.

If you build one size with glued bulk heads, you probably build every size with glued bulk heads. Leopard ( who is not perfect either ) every pic and vid I have seen of a bilge shows glassed in and painted ( gel coat ) tabs no matter the size.

Chrysler had a rep of bad electronics and trans, it was not just one model of chrysler. Toyota trucks got a rep of rust, it was not just the tacoma.

You bring up FP, was it only one model/size that blister problems, or was it more than one?

Lastly, the statement was made by me. its my opinion, this will hurt the value of every lagoon. People will read it, and I mean not sailing people, but people looking to get in to sailing. They wont necessarily remember it as a lagoon 450 but they will remember lagoon. How many hunters monos are still dealing with the post 1985 issues they had? I had a 1983 hunter 27, solid boat, but all I ever heard was "hunters have problems".

It's simple logic and common sense to conclude that if one model Lagoon is made with what is clearly inferior and sloppy construction and design, the problems will be found throughout the line. It should be noted that the squirt gun glue construction appears to be largely confined to"non structural" areas.... or rather areas that do not carry sailing loads. I would consider Lagoons to be built for the charter market at this point and not really "blue water" boats in the real sense of the word... but that's true of most sailboats... They may sail the ARC or the Puddle Jump on a regular basis.. but almost anything can with today's weather services and a decent turn of speed. This hardly looks like anything but a fair weather boat to me.

[CatNewBee]

Originally Posted by owly

It's simple logic and common sense to conclude that if one model Lagoon is made with what is clearly inferior and sloppy construction and design, the problems will be found throughout the line. It should be noted that the squirt gun glue construction appears to be largely confined to"non structural" areas.... or rather areas that do not carry sailing loads. I would consider Lagoons to be built for the charter market at this point and not really "blue water" boats in the real sense of the word... but that's true of most sailboats... They may sail the ARC or the Puddle Jump on a regular basis.. but almost anything can with today's weather services and a decent turn of speed. This hardly looks like anything but a fair weather boat to me.

Well, you have a great basket of designs to choose from. Buy the boat that suits you. It is that simple.

[PaulBartomioli]

When Colin started the YouTube channel, Jamie was one of the original 3 guys in the crew. The missing fellow is, I believe, active duty Navy Seal. He was in the first 3/4 episodes and had to leave.

[TooCoys]

New video is out... maybe up to 50 boats with broken bulkheads, and a FB group now with 850 members checking their bulkheads.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zoXWKz4Odsg

[Muaddib1116]

Originally Posted by CatNewBee

Well, you have a great basket of designs to choose from. Buy the boat that suits you. It is that simple.

That's sort of exactly his point. This new information will push people elsewhere to other boats, thus damaging Lagoon's reputation and possibly their business.

[crayiii]

I have to imagine that repairing all the 450's would bankrupt the Lagoon division. Denying that anything is wrong with the design and not paying for the repairs is the only way Lagoon survives. My belief is that the day they are "forced" to take on the liability is the last day Lagoon exists in it's current form. Either way, the owners are not getting anything.

This whole situation sucks.

[CatNewBee]

Originally Posted by Muaddib1116

That's sort of exactly his point. This new information will push people elsewhere to other boats, thus damaging Lagoon's reputation and possibly their business.

I don't think so. They are still great and very liveable catamarans and there is a huge demand. The fix is not that difficult and the new one will be built better in this area.

This will not stop people from buying a Lagoon. Look at the market, still a lot of people around searching for one.