15M Catamaran Capsize off Portugal

[Jim Cate]

Being a bit bored this arvo, I just googled "origin of the Genoa jib"...


Heaps of hits, and ya know what? Nearly every one used the term "Genoa JIB" in their discourse. And this leads me to the conclusion that the Genoa is a sub-set of the class "jib". So (not that I really care) it seems that a Genoa is indeed a jib, just one that overlaps the mast.

Sailors tend to shorten terms in casual use, hence a Genoa Jib has become a Genoa in common discourse... but it is still a jib.

And you can go on arguing about it forever, but studious folks who worry about language seem to have it covered pretty well.

Jim

[mglonnro]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Being a bit bored this arvo, I just googled "origin of the Genoa jib"...


Heaps of hits, and ya know what? Nearly every one used the term "Genoa JIB" in their discourse. And this leads me to the conclusion that the Genoa is a sub-set of the class "jib". So (not that I really care) it seems that a Genoa is indeed a jib, just one that overlaps the mast.

Sailors tend to shorten terms in casual use, hence a Genoa Jib has become a Genoa in common discourse... but it is still a jib.

And you can go on arguing about it forever, but studious folks who worry about language seem to have it covered pretty well.

Jim

The Wikipedia page is interesting, and the Talk page of that as well!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genoa_(sail)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Genoa_(sail)

[Yihang]

Interesting how the italian wiki says the inventor is italian and not swedish.

https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genoa_(vela)

I suppose before 1926 there were only jibs. Was there any overlapping jibs before the genoa?

Now days it seems a decent (maybe majority?) amount of people like to refer to non overlapping headsails as jibs and overlapping as genoas. Maybe it's just terminologies changing overtime.

[Jim Cate]

I suppose before 1926 there were only jibs. Was there any overlapping jibs before the genoa?

Well, this is one instance:

"Genoa (sail) - Wikipediaen.wikipedia.org › wiki › Genoa_(sail)
A similar type of jib was in use for centuries by the fishermen in the Netherlands with their Botter type ships. The fishermen relied on the combination of a large jib while fishing so the mainsail could remain unused. After fishing the fisherman's jib helped to get the fish to markets fast"

There are very few ideas in sailing that are truly new. Older manifestations may not have been as well engineered or use modern materials, but the general ideas were there. Sailors have been pondering problems for centuries, and some clever folks had lots of long night watches to think about things!

Jim

[Factor]

Geez, Im sorry I brought it up.

[Factor]

Originally Posted by XL2

Why should it read that...? Yes it true i capsized my race boat and I've never shied away from that to point where I made it and the events public on forums so myself and others could learn from it....
BTW it's a race boat so we were pushing it not unlike a race bike / car that is used on the track... accidents happen in this environment

So what's your point ...?

Dont take it to heart XL2, there are some who respect you for taking a classic Australian boat and racing her hard and some who simply dont have your knowledge experience or ability. I am in the former category, I remember XL2 setting a Gladstone record way back when, one of my favourite boats.

[Tupaia]

Originally Posted by Joli

Typically sailing speeds are qualified as port to port, distance sailed is irrelevant.

Disagree.... racers always quote NMiles in 24 hours, they are not always heading to their destination.

[PaulBartomioli]

Originally Posted by Yihang

Interesting how the italian wiki says the inventor is italian and not swedish.

https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genoa_(vela)

I suppose before 1926 there were only jibs. Was there any overlapping jibs before the genoa?

Now days it seems a decent (maybe majority?) amount of people like to refer to non overlapping headsails as jibs and overlapping as genoas. Maybe it's just terminologies changing overtime.

It's the evolution of language. Genoas are Jibs, but a specific type of jib. A Storm Sail is a jib. A genoa is a jib. A jib is a jib. The captain says put up the jib. Which one? Words have meaning. Words in context matter. However, there are "purists" as they see themselves, whose mission in life is to have everyone agree with their terminology.

[Joli]

Originally Posted by Tupaia

Disagree.... racers always quote NMiles in 24 hours, they are not always heading to their destination.

Races/records are point to point, it doesn't matter how many mile you sail, it matters how many miles you have sailed toward your destination. Records are distance divided by time. The only number that really matters is average time for the course. That's why we try to sail the best VMC, so our passage average is good.

https://www.sailspeedrecords.com/records

[Palarran]

Originally Posted by Joli

Races/records are point to point, it doesn't matter how many mile you sail, it matters how many miles you have sailed toward your destination. Records are distance divided by time. The only number that really matters is average time for the course. That's why we try to sail the best VMC, so our passage average is good.

https://www.sailspeedrecords.com/records

Wow, Banque Popular is 35% faster than Comanche. Sucks to be a monohull, and really a catamaran in general.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by Tupaia

Disagree.... racers always quote NMiles in 24 hours, they are not always heading to their destination.

Perhaps some of us have gotten carried away with televised and YouTube clips of offshore racing.

The vast majority of "racing" is not about speed records or point to point or French pro sailors.

It is not about NMiles in 24 hours.

It's about beating your competitors from the start to the finish around a course which may include point to point or buoys or a combination.

It is virtually always not about who has the biggest (131ft) vessel with the biggest budget. Most races are one design or handicapped. When you speak of the "racers" in the forum, that's who we're speaking of

And I guarantee you all, Cat fans and mono men alike, it does not suck to be a monohull.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by wingssail

Perhaps some of us have gotten carried away with televised and YouTube clips of offshore racing.

The vast majority of "racing" is not about speed records or point to point or French pro sailors.

It is not about NMiles in 24 hours.

It's about beating your competitors from the start to the finish around a course which may include point to point or buoys or a combination.

It is virtually always not about who has the biggest (131ft) vessel with the biggest budget. Most races are one design or handicapped. When you speak of the "racers" in the forum, that's who we're speaking of

And I guarantee you all, Cat fans and mono men alike, it does not suck to be a monohull.

Truely is and i would love to see how a few of those on would deal with a solo transpac or vic maui. Its as much as just making it as anything else

[Palarran]

Originally Posted by wingssail

it does not suck to be a monohull.

Unless your trying to set a sailing speed record. Then it does - big time. Like HUGE.

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by Palarran

Unless your trying to set a sailing speed record. Then it does - big time. Like HUGE.

Slower boats have their own speed records.

In mixed fleets one often sneers at those in the older slower boats, but once I crewed on a Cal 20 I found the racing with other Cal 20s as intense as in almost any other racing. At 3 knots boat speed. That’s why watching most sailboat racing is as interesting as watching paint dry!

[Tupaia]

Originally Posted by Joli

Races/records are point to point, it doesn't matter how many mile you sail, it matters how many miles you have sailed toward your destination. Records are distance divided by time. The only number that really matters is average time for the course. That's why we try to sail the best VMC, so our passage average is good.

https://www.sailspeedrecords.com/records

https://www.sailspeedrecords.com/24-hour-distance