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Old 02-06-2020, 07:21   #1
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Bringing a Cross 38 back from the Dead

Hey everyone,

I want to create a space for a general discussion about my Cross 38 salvation... Or we hope. There will be daily videos, and daily inputs here. Enjoy

Cheers,

James
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Old 02-06-2020, 07:27   #2
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Re: Bringing a Cross 38 back from the Dead

Her knew name is S/V Ameris, she is a cross 38 with little adaptions from the plans. I have never done this type of boat work before, your guidance is encouraged, your discouragement is not. I want things done the "right" way, if I am doing something wrong or unsafe, from a sailing vessel stand point, please let me Know!

first video here:




I have attached some current and old pictures of her.. And we are off... have fun and enjoy the ride!!!!

:-)

James
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Old 02-06-2020, 07:36   #3
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Re: Bringing a Cross 38 back from the Dead

Hey James, good luck with the project, I'll watch this space for updates.

From the out-of-the-water shots she's the cold-molded version (round hulls, no chines) which probably places her early to mid-70s (or later), does that match up with what you've heard?

Also means that the deck things you are dealing with may be the worst of it (fingers crossed). The hulls were frequently built with better plywood because you had to bend it and epoxy it, while the decks/cabin were frequently exterior Douglas Fir plywood to save money - but it didn't hold up as well over time.

[Edit] Also, how far back are the ama bows from the main bow? Looks like not very much (a foot or so?)? That points to a later build as well, Cross extended the bows from the original design to add more flotation forward and prevent lee bow burying.[/Edit]

Anyway, enjoy, and post some progress on occasion.
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Old 02-06-2020, 08:02   #4
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Re: Bringing a Cross 38 back from the Dead

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dsanduril View Post
Hey James, good luck with the project, I'll watch this space for updates.

From the out-of-the-water shots she's the cold-molded version (round hulls, no chines) which probably places her early to mid-70s (or later), does that match up with what you've heard?

Title says 1976

Also means that the deck things you are dealing with may be the worst of it (fingers crossed). The hulls were frequently built with better plywood because you had to bend it and epoxy it, while the decks/cabin were frequently exterior Douglas Fir plywood to save money - but it didn't hold up as well over time.

Hulls are diagonal strips of ? should be Douglas fir? 6" wide, 3/16" thick two layers, again per plan, two layers 180 degrees out of orientation epoxy and glassed. Port ama is a problem, then decks and window.
[Edit] Also, how far back are the ama bows from the main bow? Looks like not very much (a foot or so?)? That points to a later build as well, Cross extended the bows from the original design to add more flotation forward and prevent lee bow burying.[/Edit]

I will measure this and get back to you, girls want tramps up there anyway.


Anyway, enjoy, and post some progress on occasion.
Will do, and I am still working on the plans, THANK-YOU SOOO MUCH FOR THAT!!!! you have no idea,,,, well you probably do,,,, how much that single act has helped!!!!

Cheers,

James
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Old 02-06-2020, 08:59   #5
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Re: Bringing a Cross 38 back from the Dead

Please excuse me for butting in on your thread, but i understood on the Searunner thread that your Cross is suffering from deck rot. IMHO it is a mistake to begin tearing out the interior before you deal with the deck rot. Fix the rot, get her sailing, and then modify the interior. Beware of project creep. Just my opinion
jon
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Old 02-06-2020, 09:07   #6
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Re: Bringing a Cross 38 back from the Dead

Hi Dream,

I skimmed your video and didn't catch all the audio so I might have missed something. Is your first project to redo the interior? Have you considered doing what ever structural fixes are needed first and then go sailing for a season to see how you like the rest of the boat? There are plenty of posts on the forums to do just that. Sail it first and then you will have a better idea of what you want to change. The interior looks in pretty good shape & ready to go, (unlike many boats). Maybe you are an experienced boater and already know what you want. Or maybe the structural fixes required make this the best time to attack the interior, at the same time. Both good reasons. What ever the case I wish you the best of luck and appreciate your enthusiasm and can do attitude. That is a nice looking trimaran.

Happy boating and building.
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Old 02-06-2020, 09:26   #7
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Re: Bringing a Cross 38 back from the Dead

I have watched with interest several VLOGS about boat renovation. Sailing Uma and Odd Life Crafting are my favorites. Odd Life's building of a mast from "scratch" was very interesting.

However, if you are looking for advice, I think it is best to ask for suggestions BEFORE your project is finished.
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Old 02-06-2020, 09:26   #8
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Re: Bringing a Cross 38 back from the Dead

Here at Toronto Multihull Cruising Club we have several Pivers, Cross, Searunners and Crowther Buccaneers from the 70's, as well as many more modern boats.
The older boats have been through a few refits. I have been a member here for 21 years. Go to our website (torontomultihullclub) for some photos.

Those double diagnol planked versions I have seen have been a species of mohogany plywood for the hull as it would bend and twist easier than douglas fir that is more likely to splinter.
Some Advice:

These boats are relatively simple shapes and anything can be fixed.
Begin by fixing all exterior problems first, hulls, decks, etc., as if you begin making interior modifications you may find that you must tear out something you have just done to get to a portion of the hull or deck to repair it.

Look closely to the lockers in the side decks and amas, as rain water often collects among the framing joints and causes rot. There is little ventilation in these areas. Look for poorly ventilated areas, small cubbyholes and lockers and search for rot.
I have seen some of these older trimarans break off an ama when sailing because of rot in closed chambers.

Epoxy is your best friend. Read the West System manual.
My own boat is 23years old (catamaran) was professionally built with Epoxy/ red cedar strip hulls and Douglas Fir marine grade plywood decks (yes, as above, to cut costs). The decks were epoxy saturated at build and painted, but did not have a fibergalss cloth coating on them.

Because of the open grain on the Douglas Fir plywood the grain raises and splits the paint, especially here where our winters get very cold. even a small break of less than 1/2" can lead to moisture intrusion and cause delamination and rot in the plywood layers many times larger than the small break in the paint. Search carefully for any breaks in the paint, grind out to solid wood, epoxy saturate, cover with fiberglass cloth, fair and paint.
Good luck.
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Old 02-06-2020, 12:20   #9
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Re: Bringing a Cross 38 back from the Dead

Yes, we are fixing structural stuff first, this episode we are merely discussing possible changes to the interior. I am waiting for all my bulk materials that I ordered online to get here, in fact my Glass showed up today, so merely waiting on the plywood and 4.35 gallons of epoxy to show up, then we will need a weather window as it quite literally has rained every day or every-other day for weeks. Further more, we are discussing the interior stuff, also, because the boat is two hours from my complete wood shop, and home. we are weekending on the boat until all supplies show up, then we will take a month and live down there working on her every day, until then, I can design and possibly build other stuff Monday thru Friday at my home, then bring it to the boat on the weekends for installation. On the wood I was wondering about that, also. I believe the plans speck 3/16" x 6" solid Douglas fur, I will see what I can see on the plans.. definitely if the mahogany is stronger more rot resistant, and so on we would go that way.. Thank-you all for the suggestions.
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Old 02-06-2020, 12:25   #10
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Re: Bringing a Cross 38 back from the Dead

I had a Piver 37 AA in the 70's, sailed the Mexican cost & off to Tahiti and then Hawaii. Had a grand time & all went well. Trying to do it again in a Mono, wish I could have found a good Tri for this trip.

Best of luck & the posts going.

Capt Wayne
S/V Apollo

BTW, I agree to start with the hull & rig as first projects then sail & do interior last.
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Old 02-06-2020, 12:32   #11
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Re: Bringing a Cross 38 back from the Dead

I stand corrected. looks like it is plywood, hard to tell, I will get plans out when I get home... maybe spec'ed maple? I will be able to see it on the actual plans though. Again on the ama construction, it is spec'ed something that looks like maple... possibly.. I dunno. The Douglas fir or Philippine mahogany was spec'ed for framing and stringers. Good catch and thank you for catching it before I did it wrong... lol ... I hope I would have checked, but you made it easy for me to check again.
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Old 02-06-2020, 12:57   #12
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Re: Bringing a Cross 38 back from the Dead

I doubt it could be maple, as maple is not rot resistant and discolours with water stain.
If light coloured wood it could be white cedar, very rot resistant.
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Old 02-06-2020, 13:06   #13
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Re: Bringing a Cross 38 back from the Dead

Most common at the time was mahogany (of one variety or another) if plywood, and cedar if veneers. But it did all depend on location. Builders went with what they could get their hands on. If the insides of the amas aren't painted you may be able to tell from grain patterns (toward the bow or stern, in the dark places that see little light - and frequently didn't get painted).
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Old 02-06-2020, 14:56   #14
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Re: Bringing a Cross 38 back from the Dead

Awesome. Envy!


Tuned in and watching your progress!


b.
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Old 02-06-2020, 15:37   #15
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Re: Bringing a Cross 38 back from the Dead

Hey, I'm also on your other thread.

While I was building my steel ketch I was also in company of two guys building a Piver and Cross tri. I would climb on those boats all the time during their build, and know them both pretty well, the construction lasted the better part of 3 years. Anything I see you do, I might give a shout out.

I also wrote a book about the whole experience. I'll send you a PM about it, if you are interested. It will give you an insight to the task you've decided to take on.
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