Shoestring Sailors (Cruising on $500 per month - part II)

[Heinous]

Originally Posted by sailorchic34

Good Lord, I had no idea that Flip flop was a derogatory term.

It's not.

[ArtM]

Originally Posted by virginia boy

I expect that this spring and summer I will have outsourced about 20k of work on a 23k boat! (including sails)

If you brought home 40k while skilled laborers with the proper tools were doing 20k worth of quality work, then you are ahead - and that's how an advanced economy works.

These other guys are in a different kind of economy, one which puts personal survival, minimalism, and self-sufficiency ahead of all else.

Two diametric philosophies.

[svrodeorm]

Originally Posted by ArtM

If you brought home 40k while skilled laborers with the proper tools were doing 20k worth of quality work, then you are ahead - and that's how an advanced economy works.

These other guys are in a different kind of economy, one which puts personal survival, minimalism, and self-sufficiency ahead of all else.

Two diametric philosophies.

One might add that the individual doing it your suggested 'advanced economy' is highly unlikely to ever get out doing some real crusing sailing. And for the remote posibility he actually leaves the world of docks, commuting and marinas, he'll still be lacking (all?)skills needed for extended cruising

[ArtM]

Originally Posted by svrodeorm

One might add that the individual doing it your suggested 'advanced economy' is highly unlikely to ever get out doing some real crusing sailing. And for the remote posibility he actually leaves the world of docks, commuting and marinas, he'll still be lacking (all?)skills needed for extended cruising

You're right, and I had thought of adding something like that. Cruising is a highly individualistic lifestyle in many ways. However, at the mid-range (i.e. 40ft+catamaran cruising), I don't know if it is possible to do it any other way, unless you know someone who wants to trade a Lagoon for fish and coconuts.

I think a lot of people in this range are still part of the "main" economy, though I haven't seen many details about who is doing what, or how they are doing it - and I suspect that most prefer to keep this information private.

[ArtM]

Originally Posted by svrodeorm

One might add that the individual doing it your suggested 'advanced economy' is highly unlikely to ever get out doing some real crusing sailing. And for the remote posibility he actually leaves the world of docks, commuting and marinas, he'll still be lacking (all?)skills needed for extended cruising

I've heard it said, and this may be closest to the truth, that much of sailing is not about "skills", but more about being comfortable on the water, in the wind, and in command of a vessel. It seems that, for meany people, these things are very daunting and even scary. It's probably not coincidence that the vast majority of people live cookie-cutter lifestyles, modeled after those of their parents and their parents' parents.

I think someone can start slowly - first acquiring a boat, then moving on board for a few weeks or months to learn the boat's systems, then taking it out for a few sails after getting a little basic skills training, then taking some easy day cruises, then lots of reading and time on the helm and talking to experienced people.

There's more than one way to gain skills.

[svrodeorm]

@ArtM

Good points! And there are several ways to skin a cat. We've met many commuter-cruisers and also 'marina-to-marina' cruisers. In fact a lot more of those folks than 'die-hard self-sufficiency ' old school cruisers.

each to his/her own...

[ArtM]

Originally Posted by svrodeorm

@ArtM

Good points! And there are several ways to skin a cat. We've met many commuter-cruisers and also 'marina-to-marina' cruisers. In fact a lot more of those folks than 'die-hard self-sufficiency ' old school cruisers.

each to his/her own...

Marina to Marina is my likely future cruising style, if I'm lucky (or more likely anchorage to anchorage).

If I'm not lucky, it will be commuting-cruising . What I don't want to do is end up living-aboard in a marina working an office job due to a failed cruising plan.

Not that there is anything wrong with marina living, it's just not one of my interests.

[svrodeorm]

We mostly do anchorage to anchorage. Less than 25 nights in marinas in 3 years of full time cruising. 20 of those 25 because we had to travel inland and there was no other (safe) option. That said we have also once left our oat at anchor for 3 months while flying home. That was in a good, safe spot and with friends to keep an eye on things.

We live frugally but quite happily and ust want to keep on until health or old age becomes an issue.

[Tomi]

Originally Posted by callmecrazy

Living on land is much more expensive than on a boat. In most places I've price shopped for marina's in the US, slip rent is either on par or much lower than the smallest and crappiest apartments in the same city.

I agree that if all a person wanted to do was live aboard in a marina and not move, a powerboat is the way to go. It's pretty easy to find one with broken engines that owe slip fee's or something and needs to be sold extremely cheap. Several people in this marina do exactly that. They're paying $200 a month for a slip instead of $600 for an 1br apartment.

Fixing up a boat is far more expensive than just 'living' either on land or water...

I think DOJ is spot-on that moving is costly in the sense that it takes time to settle into a new location and start finding all the good deals and get a job. That's why I'm focusing on self-sufficiency and preparing the boat, and myself, for living at anchor. So I can go to any city and still live as cheaply as possible while I do my scouting (or move on if I don't like it). The other thing is having a seaworthy boat, so I can actually sail to wherever I want to go instead of the costly route of the ICW...

Fixing up a boat is the expensive part, but once it's 'finished', maintaining it is not expensive at all. That's also why I've found it important to take my time and fix things exactly the way I want them, instead of just making it 'work' as cheaply as possible.

Job's are the other big factor in terms of how often you move, or cruise. It seems to me that the large majority of cruisers, whether they are shoestring or not, have some sort of fixed or residual income. They are not actively earning money while they cruise (I know a lot do, but it's definitely not the majority). So for those of us that have to put boots on the ground to fund their cruising habits, relocating must done carefully with lots of planning.

I've been living aboard and working on this boat for about 7 months now. I'm currently spending a lot more than $500 a month, but my living expenses are still right around $500... It'll probably take me atleast another 6 months before I'm ready enough to move to a new location, and maybe another year before I'm comfortable enough to start actually cruising. With the plan still being to work 6 months and cruise for 6 months at a time.

The big question that always I always hear, is whether it's worth it to buy a fixer upper or just save for better boat. I think this is a personal decision. I'll probably put over $10k into this boat over the course of 2 years when it's all said and done, and it's a lot of work... I could have just saved another year and bought a $15-20k boat instead of a $5-10k boat. But for me, living in Ohio and saving money was absolute HELL I'm infinitely more satisfied with my life living on the water, even in a marina, and putting all my money into this boat. So the change for me has been a positive one, even though I'm not out sailing around the world. My plan is still solid and financially realistic, and 2 years is not too long a time for the refit/relocation etc.. But 2 years would have been far too long to just sit and wait watching my money slowly accumulate.

now this speaks to me. I too am torn between going for it sooner, or waiting it out for a newer/better boat.
Thanks too to the sailor girl, and the curmudgeon from Toronto.

[zeehag]

a boat is never finished--is always a work in progress.
cruising is merely repairing and maintaining said boat in exotic locales--is a lot less pricey to do it this way than to "finish" then sail.
trust natives and use commercial fishing yards here in mexico--cruising mexico is not a bad thing--there are many places away from densely populated areas and overly huge marina centers with friendly folks and beautiful scenery. price is still right in many places.

[mausgras]

Originally Posted by larryb

. When I was cruising Mex, it struck me as quite selfish and 'unseaman like' for those who never moved their boats and were basically homesteading to have, and keep, the best and closest anchor spots to shore or facilities. If you are living on a derelict boat that is an eysore, causing a problem to navigation, taking up scarce anchorage or mooring space and giving basically a bad image to JQP about the liveaboard lifestyle, you should be living under a bridge somwhere.
Larry

So what would you call this long term liveaboard? .... Sailor trash maybe?

[ohdrinkboy]

looks like laundry day

[Tom Stormcrowe]

Originally Posted by mausgras

So what would you call this long term liveaboard? .... Sailor trash maybe?

A packrat?

[bobconnie]

Gee!! the wife and I can and do cruise on 7 to 8 hundred bucks a month! the only times we use marinas is when Connies doing a Travel nurse job!(then it's covered by the Company she works for) or when we need to do repairs to the boat that needs shoreside equipment or workers! we really like to anchor, and as remote as we can find ! We love fish and eat a lot of it ! (we also like to fish LOL) We buy the fresh veggys when we can find them! trade for lobsters when we can, and even at my age I can still get conk when they are around !!and as we have said we can both veggies and fish, you can live cheaply if ya try to ! we don't drink much and seldom eat ashore !(except for stuff in mexico ) it's mostly a thing ya do if ya like your own cooking and like the company of your better half !! We don't need others to be happy altho we do injoy other cruisers we meet along the way ( well at least most of em!) We never feel like we are trying to live cheaply! we just do the same things we did when we had 4 kids to feed and raise !! we call it econmy cruising!! not cheap LOL just our 2 cents

[Azul]

Originally Posted by mausgras

So what would you call this long term liveaboard? .... Sailor trash maybe?

That qualifies as compulsive hoarding as the space cannot be used for its intended function. Sad, and hard to treat.