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Old 21-02-2018, 00:02   #61
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Re: Prepping?

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How many of you equip your vessel as a “bug out” destination and if so what special considerations have you employed?

Has it crossed your mind?
Continually ready for the zombie apocalypse and restock most when we get to 50%

A years supply of beans, rice and various curries, chillies, sauces and spices.
3 mth supply of frozen beef/pork/chicken and bacon
10kg of flour
12 x 300gram coffee
48 cans condensed milk
12 cases of wine
10 cases of beer and cider
20 litres of spirits
6 boxes of 1.25l mineral water
4 x 9kg gas bottles
5000 litres water and more easily collected via rain or 200L tank in tender
7000 litres diesel
100 litres outboard fuel with extra 300 litre tank for big trips
2200 watts of solar
An ever growing stockpile of pumps, belts, hoses, clamps, resin, fishing gear
80 litres of oil
10 litres power steering fluid
And the all important tinfoil for cooking and hats.

And that's off the top of my head.

We live on a boat, the things and brands we like aren't easy access so we grab a lot when we can.

Do we win a prize?
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Old 21-02-2018, 05:56   #62
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Re: Prepping?

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"Prepping" simply means PREPARING.

The difference between one person and the next is whether one takes proactive steps to help ensure their survival, which is defined as preparing.
...
As was pointed out earlier, the Just-In-Time delivery system is quite fragile. It would take far less than an EMP/CME/Flare/War to bring that system to its knees. And with no more than 3-days of food, medicine, and fuel available at any one moment in time, a pause in the JIT delivery system could have dire consequences.
...
Farming moved the human race out of the hunter/gather age and into a prosperous era, whereby humans could produce and save for difficult times.
...
If you keep spare parts, jerry cans of extra fuel/water, more than 3-days of food, and preventative medications, then you are prepared. The degree is debatable. If you educate yourself, or keep books that you comprehend on mechanics, medical, food preparation, water filtration, etc. Then you are prepared. Do you have a plan for dealing with unwelcome guests? Yes? You are prepared. Doing any, or all of the above would put you squarely into the "survivalist" camp, or a prepper if that is what you want to call it.
...

Yes, I am a survivalist. Always have been. Always will be.
Joking aside, I have no problem with people aiming to be self-sufficient and prepared for adversity.

But as you mentioned, our advancement as a civilization came from producing more than we consume. And that came from co-operation and organizing, not independent action.

Sure, the individual with the best stockpile can survive unaided longer than someone not as prepared, but overall, our resiliency and long-term survival will be through co-operating. Survival of the most will come from the rest of us pitching in to help those affected by calamity. Group insurance, if you will.

Being personally prepared will help anyone survive a temporary disaster, til help can arrive. Something more massive - global war, major pandemic, economic collapse... having your bug-out plan, bomb shelter and/or weapons will simply delay personal hardship.

I have a problem with hobby "preppers" - those who obsess over all manner of SHTF scenarios up to and including zombies, but whose only action is selfish. Such prepping, if the worst does come to pass, means you just have longer to regret not building a better, cooperative society or country with resiliency when you had the chance.

The best prepping is to try to keep the S away from the F, especially man-made S like war or economic collapse, and to prepare collectively to help each other if something bad does happen. Keep war-mongers out of government, protect your economic system from reckless disruption, maintain and enhance the capabilities of your military and other organizations to quickly provide aid when necessary, and prepare as a country (or a planet) to handle disaster.
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Old 21-02-2018, 06:16   #63
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Being a cynic I'd say that in the States its not whose got the most food and water stockpiled that will survive.. but the person with the most weapons and ammo..
But as I said.. I'm a cynic.
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Old 21-02-2018, 06:27   #64
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Re: Prepping?

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I have a problem with hobby "preppers" - those who obsess over all manner of SHTF scenarios up to and including zombies, but whose only action is selfish. Such prepping, if the worst does come to pass, means you just have longer to regret not building a better, cooperative society or country with resiliency when you had the chance.

The best prepping is to try to keep the S away from the F, especially man-made S like war or economic collapse, and to prepare collectively to help each other if something bad does happen. Keep war-mongers out of government, protect your economic system from reckless disruption, maintain and enhance the capabilities of your military and other organizations to quickly provide aid when necessary, and prepare as a country (or a planet) to handle disaster.
I think the attraction to "prepping" is that it returns some control of your future to your actions (granted, in a real SHTF scenario it may just be delaying the inevitable). The portion that I quoted above is largerly out of the control of the "common" man (at least in the US). How do you keep "war mongers" out of government when you are given the choice of Warmonger A or Warmonger B. So "prepping" at least puts the semblence to control of your fate back in your hands.

I'm 100% on board with your position at a small size localized level but while the thought is nice I don't think it is possible in the real world at a "country" level.

I'll continue my plan to wait off shore for the herd to cull itself if EOTW happens... with some rum
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Old 21-02-2018, 06:57   #65
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Re: Prepping?

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Being a cynic I'd say that in the States its not whose got the most food and water stockpiled that will survive.. but the person with the most weapons and ammo.
If such survivors can keep from shooting each other...

The people who survive will be the ones who can work together, pool their resources, and keep individuals from flying off the handle.

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I think the attraction to "prepping" is that it returns some control of your future to your actions (granted, in a real SHTF scenario it may just be delaying the inevitable).
The portion that I quoted above is largerly out of the control of the "common" man (at least in the US). How do you keep "war mongers" out of government when you are given the choice of Warmonger A or Warmonger B. So "prepping" at least puts the semblence to control of your fate back in your hands.

I'm 100% on board with your position at a small size localized level but while the thought is nice I don't think it is possible in the real world at a "country" level.
I think I'm on safe ground to say that that this feeling of personally being out of control is stronger in the US... and to me it seems it's largely a political problem.

Without going into too much detail, I believe the political solution is to create a new American party C, made up of moderates who are sick of the limiting and sometimes extreme positions of parties A & B. Two choices ain't enough. Big ask, I know.

Re surviving: we've all seen this - hurricane, famine, flood, forest fire, power failure... the aid comes from government and NGOs, AND from people helping from each other. It never plays out like in prepper SHTF scenarios.

I see the most "prepper" advertising on gun and conspiracy sites/publications, and the tone is almost like they're preparing for Boy Scout camp. If you have a hammer, everything looks like a nail, I guess.
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Old 21-02-2018, 06:59   #66
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Re: Prepping?

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Originally Posted by dwedeking2 View Post
I think the attraction to "prepping" is that it returns some control of your future to your actions (granted, in a real SHTF scenario it may just be delaying the inevitable). The portion that I quoted above is largerly out of the control of the "common" man (at least in the US). How do you keep "war mongers" out of government when you are given the choice of Warmonger A or Warmonger B. So "prepping" at least puts the semblence to control of your fate back in your hands.

I'm 100% on board with your position at a small size localized level but while the thought is nice I don't think it is possible in the real world at a "country" level.

I'll continue my plan to wait off shore for the herd to cull itself if EOTW happens... with some rum
I would have said basically the same thing as the above to you Lake-Effect. You seem to have a Utopia thing going on there. Human nature has proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that the majority are predisposed to be followers, and rarely will follow their own course, and would rather be lead (sometimes to slaughter.)

Human nature has also proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that we have very strong survival instinct; an instinct that will push humans towards those in need. Why? Because we subconsciously understand that surviving alone is not survival, and that more than one's self need to survive to perpetuate the species.

As for the selfish rugged individualists you were speaking about, you should realize that they, with their stockpiles of food, water, ammo, books, medicines, and so on could have the power to choose whom they help survive and those they let pass on. And from experience, I would suspect they would chose to wield that power should a human calamity come to pass. I am not sure I know of any selfish rugged individualist that would intentionally hand out precious savings to the likes of Tara Lipinski, or Johnny Weir and their rice paper fragile personality's should they come knocking on the bunker door.

Harsh? Definitely! But we each make our own decisions and we each must live with the consequences of our decisions.

That being said, humans are more likely to suffer regional issues, rather than global issues. Even historic global issues have been survived by humans, including war, famine, nuclear detonation/meltdowns, drought, ice ages, etc. Sure some people do prepare for the end of the world, but myself having lived comfortably through multiple naturally occurring disasters (hurricanes, forest fires, earthquakes, and floods), I can definitely say that is the area where most should be prepared - prepared to live comfortably themselves, and still retain the ability to help their less prepared neighbors if they so choose.

The hobby "prepper" regardless of their motivations, is still doing better than the average Western employee/consumer, and should be commended. As for believing government is here to help, that is laughable and sad. Government is the most prepared of any entity. And that is to save themselves, not the common man. Governments bring calamity, no matter who you vote for.

Stay prepared.
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Old 21-02-2018, 07:22   #67
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Re: Prepping?

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Really?




It won't be the initial issue (zombies, pandemic, emp etc) that get you. It's all your neighbors who aren't prepared for any type of issue and will run out of supplies in a day or two and not be able to restock at the store.

My first hurricane since moving to Florida was Matthews. I was surprised at the lack of preparation most did to protect their property (home owners and businesses). And visiting the few open restaurants I listened to everyone's stories. Set backs that we're first world problems and then real issues just ignored ("The store was out of water so we didn't have any extra" - Jane you would have if you would have filled up all the containers in your house from the faucet the day before, that's water too).
I realized something last night. I also participate to some extent on a motorcycle forum and a firearms forum. All have had threads about Zombies. I therefor conclude that zombies, although reviled in media, are in fact the great unifier of cultures.

On another note that picture above is not of zombies, those are hipsters.
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Old 21-02-2018, 07:26   #68
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Re: Prepping?

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As for the selfish rugged individualists you were speaking about, you should realize that they, with their stockpiles of food, water, ammo, books, medicines, and so on could have the power to choose whom they help survive and those they let pass on. And from experience, I would suspect they would chose to wield that power should a human calamity come to pass.
...
The hobby "prepper" regardless of their motivations, is still doing better than the average Western employee/consumer, and should be commended. As for believing government is here to help, that is laughable and sad. Government is the most prepared of any entity. And that is to save themselves, not the common man. Governments bring calamity, no matter who you vote for.
Again, I have no problem with simply being resourceful and prepared. Just with the obsessives, and their SHTF survival fantasies.

If someone has no grasp of history and how we got to here, or no faith in the human ability to organize to mutual benefit, and some secret wish to administer a Darwinian weeding out of mankind... well, that makes them part of the problem.
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Old 21-02-2018, 07:28   #69
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Re: Prepping?

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If such survivors can keep from shooting each other...

The people who survive will be the ones who can work together, pool their resources, and keep individuals from flying off the handle.


I think I'm on safe ground to say that that this feeling of personally being out of control is stronger in the US... and to me it seems it's largely a political problem.

Without going into too much detail, I believe the political solution is to create a new American party C, made up of moderates who are sick of the limiting and sometimes extreme positions of parties A & B. Two choices ain't enough. Big ask, I know.

.
I suppose ( at the risk of sounding like a political attack ) you feel that your prime minister Justin ( proto zoa) Trudeau has the answers.
( he appears to match your idea of party C political views.)
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Old 21-02-2018, 07:31   #70
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pirate Re: Prepping?

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Again, I have no problem with simply being resourceful and prepared. Just with the obsessives, and their SHTF survival fantasies.

If someone has no grasp of history and how we got to here, or any faith in the human ability to organize to mutual benefit, and some secret wish to administer a Darwinian weeding out of mankind... well, that makes them part of the problem.
I think that's more a cultural/religious wish than anything Darwinist.. and has existed since long before his contributions.
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Old 21-02-2018, 07:34   #71
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Re: Prepping?

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Again, I have no problem with simply being resourceful and prepared. Just with the obsessives, and their SHTF survival fantasies.
You mean the same sort of obsession sailors have with ground tackle, topside polish, liability insurance, and safety gear? That kind of obsession?



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If someone has no grasp of history and how we got to here, or any faith in the human ability to organize to mutual benefit, and some secret wish to administer a Darwinian weeding out of mankind... well, that makes them part of the problem.
Does it? Are you sure? Most preppers actually read history and are more well versed in it that politicians. Most preppers are innately familiar with "mutual benefit." You cannot see it because you are not in it. As for "administering a Darwinian weeding," that is human nature, and if you think you can fight that, best of luck to you.
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Old 21-02-2018, 07:42   #72
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Re: Prepping?

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I suppose ( at the risk of sounding like a political attack ) you feel that your prime minister Justin ( proto zoa) Trudeau has the answers.
( he appears to match your idea of party C political views.)
You're right, it does sound like a political attack. And you assume too much.

Apparently, everything is black and white, and you don't seem to get my point that the US voter needs MORE choice. My proposed party C would be in the middle - made up of people from both A and B who want a more sensible option than the current Hatfield-McCoy dynamic.

The GOP itself seems poised to fracture into a (mostly) moderate center-right party, and the absolutists. That's potentially the genesis of a workable third party, especially if the moderates were joined by business-friendly Democrats. Hardly Trudeau-like.
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Old 21-02-2018, 07:45   #73
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Re: Prepping?

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You mean the same sort of obsession sailors have with ground tackle, topside polish, liability insurance, and safety gear? That kind of obsession?
Well, those things are mostly preparation for things that can and have happened.
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Old 21-02-2018, 10:58   #74
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Re: Prepping?

You can certainly tell the diference between the people who prepare, and don't prepare for a hurricane, by about day three.
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Old 21-02-2018, 12:21   #75
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Re: Prepping?

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There's a series of books by Colin Drysdale (Outbreak, For Those In Peril On The Sea, and The Island At The End Of The World) that are set on sail boats in a post apocalyptic world.
Just ordered all three! You might like "Long Voyage Back" by Luke Rhinehart.
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