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Old 06-05-2020, 04:43   #1
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Lightbulb SAR Plugin

Hi, I made a suggestion some time ago if the SAR plugin could have the position lat/long entered in Degrees and decimal minutes So all three forms are optional. I think most use the DD-MM.mm system and have moved away from D-M-S.
I also note that if degrees and decimal mins are entered in the DMS with Sec set to 0 or blank the min calculation does not use the decimal value.

One other very small thing. In the Oil rig search the number of legs is labeled "Degrees" as opposed to "n" as in the other pattern options.
Best Regards, and thanks to Salty Paws for the plug in.
Steve
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Old 07-05-2020, 07:08   #2
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Re: SAR Plugin

Ops.NavigBr


We would very much like to get this plugin fixed to handle user lat long entry much more reliably, because currently it is unreliable particularly in an emergency when everything needs to work. Your suggestions and experience are helpful.


Please see tracker "Conversion Error - Dangerous result"
Also Issues https://github.com/SaltyPaws/SAR_pi/issues/5


Gilletarom's tests https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...sar-90663.html


If you would please read and comment using your experience.



What is the best way to fix this problem? Have a cursor that the user locates to enter the LAT / LONG? So that there is no data entry at all?
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Old 11-05-2020, 17:41   #3
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Re: SAR Plugin

Hi, Sorry it took so long to get back, I couldn't log in as I was using my entire email address as the username. Anyhow back to the S&R lat long.
I always use Degrees & Decimal Minuets for lat long but the S&R plugin does not have that option. I have not experienced the errors talked about in the forum, probably because I don't use the lat long picker but type in what I want.
It has a cursor selector now but it too is very tedious as you have to select the lat then the long individually, that too would be better if it took both lat & long in one hit.
I have written in the past that I have written an S&R search program which is also used by the Police Water Operations unit here, It is primarily for Multi Vessel searches, however it also creates all of the same single vessel patterns the plugin makes. I notice on the parallel pattern the plugin makes that the second waypoint for the two vessels is double the track space, that to me does not make much sense, as each vessel supposedly can visually see halve the space, there is a change a target may be missed between the two patterns. My pattern puts the two vessels one space apart at that point so the centre line between pattern 1 & 2 has the same space as the two patterns. This does not worry me as we don't use single vessel parallel tracks. However if the Expanding Square, Sector or Oil Rig patterns are created with the S&R plugin, with the same parameters as my program they match almost perfectly, with some waypoints lonely metres apart, this is probably due to the calculation method. I'm also not big on the Expanding Square question "How Many Squares" as all other patterns ask for the number of legs "n" I think it should be the same for the ES search.
Remember I did say the Oil Rig labels the number of legs as "Degrees" n stead of "n", just a small text error.
I hope this is clearer than mud, I know it might be easier to show than explain.
Best regards,
Steve H
SA Sea Rescue Squadron Operations Center Coordinator & Navigator.
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Old 11-05-2020, 22:58   #4
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Re: SAR Plugin

Hi Again,
I down loaded another S&R program (Navigational Algorithms) which calculates the Parallel "Trackline" pattern like the openCPN plugin, it too calculates the same as my program for the two routes 1 & 2 so I do believe the plugin is not quiet right as that is concerned as I outlined in my last two threads. it may be a small issue. I also looked at the small error in waypoint positions compared to my program and the Navigational Algorithms software, it appears the plugin calculation rounds the Lat 34°57.500S to LAT -34.958300, but it should be lat="-34.958333", the Navigation Algorithms uses more decimals than I do and gives lat="-34.958333333" which is closer still, I don't feel the extra few places in their calculation makes any significant difference in fact, but the difference in 4 places and 6 is noticeable when zoomed in on the chart may explain the small error of a few metres I have noticed.
PS I have attached the plugin GPX files for two vessels, the GPX files from my program for 2 vessels and the Navigational Algorithms file which has both vessels in the singe GPX.
Cheers
Steve H
Operations Center Coordinator & Navigator
SA Sea Rescue Squadron.
Attached Files
File Type: gpx Navigational Algorithms - PM.gpx (14.2 KB, 2 views)
File Type: gpx OpenCPN Trackline 1.gpx (2.5 KB, 1 views)
File Type: gpx OpenCPN Trackline 2.gpx (2.5 KB, 1 views)
File Type: gpx PS-Route-A.gpx (4.1 KB, 1 views)
File Type: gpx PS-Route-B.gpx (4.1 KB, 1 views)
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Old 26-05-2020, 10:46   #5
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Re: SAR Plugin

Dear Steve,

Thankyou for your files and information.
At some point here we will look at them and try to improve The SAR plugin. We may have some questions and would appreciate your tests.
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Old 26-05-2020, 18:40   #6
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Re: SAR Plugin

Hi rgleason,
no worries with testing or answering any questions you may have re SAR if I know the answer that is.
I have a question for you, I am happily using OCPN V 5 with the changes you guys implemented last we chatted re track times etc.
I see you are releasing a new update, when will that be and what changes have be implemented?
Best regards
Steve.
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Old 27-05-2020, 02:04   #7
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Re: SAR Plugin

Steve, Rick ...

Happy to take a look at the SAR plugin.

For reference I have the 2016 IAMSAR Manual Vol III and MSC.1/Circ.1594
25 May 2018, NOT the 2019 Manual. Is this sufficient?

Steve ... Are you willing to share the code for your own program? The algorithm could be helpful.

Mike
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Old 27-05-2020, 03:33   #8
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Re: SAR Plugin

That would be great Mike and much appreciated. If I can help in any way, let me know. There is a problem with how the starting point is entered, possible confusion on the part of the person entering it which we deemed to be dangerous. That problem has not been addressed. We need a better way to enter the start point too.

Perhaps Steve has some suggestions since he is most familiar with these stressful situations.

I can fit Plugin Manager "Frontend2" on the SAR program so that it benefits from the 12 environments and installation.


BTW Steve, earlier I believe TransmitterDan was working on your behalf and active in protecting some features he knew you find useful for distribution.
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Old 27-05-2020, 04:44   #9
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Re: SAR Plugin

Hi Rick & Mike,
I'm happy to help where I can, I don't have code you could use as the program I use is excel based which creates 16 different search patterns, 9 are for multiple vessels (up to 20) in each pattern which you don't need for "ON the Craft" type searches, I do also create all the single vessel patterns the plugin creates. I have simply written a VBA macro to write the GPX files from the excel data for each pattern or vessel. So all the calculations are Excel based. In the multi vessel patterns that can be up to 400 waypoints or 20 separate routes in one click.
The CSP Lat/Long for all patterns is entered as DEGREES & DECIMAL MINUTES, which I believe is a short coming but probably easily fixed in the plugin. I think I'm correct in saying if Decimal Mins are entered without seconds the plugin only uses the whole number so 34° 24.5' is 34° 24' 0" and not 34° 24'30" which might be the error others were talking about. This could be resolved by allowing all three Lat/Long types, Decimal Degrees, Degrees & Decimal Minutes, Degrees Minutes & Seconds. I think everyone these days uses Decimal Minutes albeit the calculations are done in decimal degrees in the background.
As I said in my earlier threads I also think the Plugin Parallel Patterns two routes are twice the distance apart than they logically should be, this is shown in the GPX file from my program and the one from the other bit of software I downloaded.
(both files were attached previously with the plugin file)
(Divide the space or track by 2 for the second waypoint but not for the rest)

As I usually have to create GPX files for multiple vessels I don't actually use the plugin and its easier to use the one program to generate the plugin patterns and my navigators do not need to learn the plugin too.
Anyhow this has got a bit wordy so if its clear as mud let me know.
Best regards
Steve H
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Old 28-05-2020, 03:37   #10
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Re: SAR Plugin

Let's keep going with this thread and use
https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...sar-90663.html
as a reference.

Made some changes to the SAR plugin and a Windows installer is here:

https://github.com/Rasbats/SAR_pi/releases/tag/v2.0

Please refer to the GitHub page for a list of the changes.

Mike
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Old 28-05-2020, 05:46   #11
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Re: SAR Plugin

Mike...


just an idea: export of the generated SAR patterns in RTZ format as well?


Hubert
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Old 28-05-2020, 08:04   #12
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Re: SAR Plugin

Hubert...

That got me chuckling! But seriously... yes a good idea. Very possible. But first to get rid of any remaining bugs and spec out the way forward. This needs to be a trusted plugin.

Mike
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Old 28-05-2020, 18:17   #13
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Re: SAR Plugin

Hi Mike & Rick
I just downloaded the latest S&R plugin and see the typo for the number of legs on the oil rig search has been fixed and more importantly the Lat/Long can now be DDD mm.mm which is great however I noticed you need to convert to DDD,DDD before the pattern is generated at the correct CSP. could it possibly do that automatically no matter which lat/long type is selected therefore eliminating this process completely.
I'll look at the generated patterns and compare them with mine to check for errors and let you know, I also not the first leg spacing is now as I believe it should be (GOOD JOB), I appreciate this is designed for "ON BOARD USE" so its unlikely you would need both ship 1 & 2 generated together but as I am situated in a base station my program gives the user the choice of boat 1, boat 2 or both boats 1 & 2 where boat 1 as a Green Route colour and boat 2 has a Red route colour, it catches me every time as I select boat 2 and only get one side but it makes sense an you may not think its not worth the effort considering the end user is a single vessel except if both.
Just for interest I have attached three screen images I use for the Parallel pattern generation.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	PS Boat 1&2.GIF
Views:	7
Size:	69.6 KB
ID:	216019   Click image for larger version

Name:	PS Boat 1.GIF
Views:	6
Size:	69.0 KB
ID:	216020  

Click image for larger version

Name:	PS Boat 2.GIF
Views:	5
Size:	66.0 KB
ID:	216021  
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Old 28-05-2020, 18:45   #14
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Thumbs up Re: SAR Plugin

Hi Ron & Mike, I forgot to say and its probably neither here nor there but the number of legs in a parallel and oil rig search generally is the long track leg and not the small transitional leg. Expanding square is usually the number of legs and not the number of squares you want.
Cheers
Steve.
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Old 29-05-2020, 00:46   #15
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Re: SAR Plugin

Hello again Guys,
I've had a goo play with the latest SAR V2 plugin all seems OK to me as far as the accuracy of the waypoints are concerned, all the patterns overlay almost perfectly on the patterns my program produces, the expanding square (SS) after 4 squares set on the plugin and 16 Leg on my program the last waypoint is about 8.2 meters out, no big deal that may be rounding in the calc. or even the formula its self, no big deal I think, if after 36 odd Nm your out by 8Mtrs so what, most could not steer a boat that close anyhow even without leeway and set to take in to account. ik thought of something you might like to add to make it fancy, I use different colours for the routes where there are 2 routes like the (PS) Parallel Track and the (VS) Sector where can be 2 passes, but for the (SS) Expanding square and the (QS) Quadrant or Oil Rig I give the navigator a choice of route colours using the OpenCPN pallet via a excel VBA selection box, I think you could implement the same instead of using the default colour on every route created. I have attach an image of the userform dialog box I use.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	OpenCPN route Colour Selector.GIF
Views:	11
Size:	41.2 KB
ID:	216029  
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