Americas Cup and simpler days

[genaea]

I used to be a HUGE AC fan. Traveled to see the boats, have crew shirts, bought AC watches, have AC shot glasses, etc.

As with the OP, I haven't watched one in years. The boats look like space ships, the rules and protesting are handled by law firms, the crew are not from the country the boat is from, and the billionaires have taken over.

I am not sure why they even have crew on the boats, as they are totally unnecessary. The boats are the latest tech, and they have no need for humans onboard anymore. It is funny how easy people accept new technology for the boat, but when it comes to replacing the slowest and lowest technologically advanced system on board the boat (helmsman, navigator, crew) they all the sudden get resistant to replacing them with high tech. They wax poetic about the good old days when humans were needed to do these functions.

If you really want to make it a fun contest, at least place one boat on the coarse that is full AI. I would start watching again, just to see how badly it beats the humans at their own sport. Of course, a law firm would intercede with a declaration of how 'unfair' this is.

Meanwhile, I will enjoy my pokey little sailboats going 5.5 knots, and relish in the sound of the breeze as it goes past my old dacron sails. 2021 is a good year.

[jmh2002]

Are you really sure that you were such an AC fan in the past? Because your post full of many inaccuracies, both present as well as historical...

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by genaea

I used to be a HUGE AC fan. Traveled to see the boats, have crew shirts, bought AC watches, have AC shot glasses, etc.

As with the OP, I haven't watched one in years. The boats look like space ships, the rules and protesting are handled by law firms, the crew are not from the country the boat is from, and the billionaires have taken over.

I am not sure why they even have crew on the boats, as they are totally unnecessary. The boats are the latest tech, and they have no need for humans onboard anymore. It is funny how easy people accept new technology for the boat, but when it comes to replacing the slowest and lowest technologically advanced system on board the boat (helmsman, navigator, crew) they all the sudden get resistant to replacing them with high tech. They wax poetic about the good old days when humans were needed to do these functions.

If you really want to make it a fun contest, at least place one boat on the coarse that is full AI. I would start watching again, just to see how badly it beats the humans at their own sport. Of course, a law firm would intercede with a declaration of how 'unfair' this is.

Meanwhile, I will enjoy my pokey little sailboats going 5.5 knots, and relish in the sound of the breeze as it goes past my old dacron sails. 2021 is a good year.

I don't know how long ago you were a "HUGE" fan, must have been a while.

I think you're wrong about almost everything, particularly the suitability of AI to run the boats. No chance.

And lawyers? No way are you old enough to have been around before the lawyers got involved, that's simply wishfull thinking.

The best times of our lives were not 60 years ago, it's now.

But you keep living in the past. Meanwhile I'm moving onward. This Cup is astonishingly compelling for me to watch and read about, The sailor's skills and the technology; it's the best ever. Maybe next round will be back to something more traditional. That will be OK, just as long we keep moving with the times.

Get with it, times change. (I also gave up my favorite High School music too).

[genaea]

Folks, I think it may be you who need to get with the times.

AI could totally run the boats. Whether you like it or not, we are the dinosaurs soon to be replaced with technology. One Nvidia card can do 320 Trillion (with a T) operations a second. For the weight of one crew member, you could put 50 of these cards on board (not that you need that many to perform the functions on these boats). The rest is simply servo motors, pump systems, etc. And you would have 4 years between AC cup races to train the data set.

Like I said, many people love high tech on these boats, but the slowest and lowest tech items on the boat are the people. So, yes lets get with the times.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by genaea

Folks, I think it may be you who need to get with the times.

AI could totally run the boats. Whether you like it or not, we are the dinosaurs soon to be replaced with technology. One Nvidia card can do 320 Trillion (with a T) operations a second. For the weight of one crew member, you could put 50 of these cards on board (not that you need that many to perform the functions on these boats). The rest is simply servo motors, pump systems, etc. And you would have 4 years between AC cup races to train the data set.

Like I said, many people love high tech on these boats, but the slowest and lowest tech items on the boat are the people. So, yes lets get with the times.

Surely these boats could be built to sail without people on board, as in a drone, for example, with operators ashore. Maybe not as well as with them on the boat since the situational awareness of a onboard sailor is far superior to that of someone looking as screens and hearing microphone Pick-ups.

As for an AI controlled boat. Hell the automated cars cannot even prevent themselves from killing a pedestrian. It's not about how many operations a second or how many cards or memory, it is the programming which must understand the entire situation and decide how to control the boat. This is the challenge, not the cycles per second available to do it.

Perhaps someone it working on that problem right now, but I doubt it, and I have no idea why someone would want to.

You tell me, mr genaea, when do you think this will be ready to demonstrate? I'd say not in your or my lifetime.

[genaea]

Dear wingssail,

I sense that you may be a bit adverse to computers running things. Of which I may not be able to convince you otherwise. Which is fine.

Humans themselves kill each other on the road to the tune of 3,700 per day and 1.35 million per year (per cdc.gov) so I do not think we humans set the bar very high for safety. With that said, I agree with your ascertain about this not being a top priority for AI/ML systems developers. And, this exact application may not come to fruition anytime soon.

As I stated above, with 4 years of training a data model using highly skilled people to train the AI system, it would not be beatable. In training this model with skilled practitioners you could compress the learning cycle down to a manageable level. This combined with the ability of a computer to gather and process large quantities of data (this is what you are calling situational awareness) it would be quite formidable.

I am reminded of this fact when I look at my drone. It is a commodity piece of hardware with a processor the size of my thumb nail, and it can 'follow me' better than I can fly the thing myself.

With that said, I certainly do not wish to spoil nor dampen the enjoyment you obtain while watching the AC. I hope your team wins.

[2020]

I am having to listen to similar "not what is was like in my day..." from old codgers at the club. Rose coloured glasses and glued on ideals.
I LOVE THE NEW AC set up. WOW. This is the best of the best stuff in every way. You don't have to like it but please you know you can't knock it. The Prada cup has been gobsmackingly, edge of your seat technology AND classic sailing tactics AND bastardly behaviour on and off the water. all sailed on some awesome water in NZ. If you can't find it in you to appreciate this is as better than anything prior, then you are dead inside. (yeah, thought I'd go in soft...)
For the classic aficionados, myself included, there are J class regatta, Superyacht regatta, Gaffers races etc etc etc. In fact I thing there's a tournamant for every type of bloody boat ever built. If you like old style AC boats, Kookaburra (KA-11) and Spirit of Australia (AUS-21) are still sailing on Sydney Harbour. Australia (KA-5) and Steak and Kidney (KA-14) are also still flying their colours.
We have moved on from the old timber Dacron and hemp rope couta boats (except in Pitwater Australia and the social tryhards at the Sorrento sailing coterie in Victoria and the questionably pierced royals on Sydney harbour

[john manning]

You are very clearly not watching the races. I have just finished watching Ben Ainslie (Ineos) beat James Spithill (Prada) in the last of their race series.

The event, all at 34 - 42kts, came down to which helmsman read the wind variations best and chose the right side of the course. Classic match racing technique.

Turning back the clock on this type of sailing would be like changing formula 1 car racing back to having a man with a red flag walk in front of every car.

[jmh2002]

Yes, it was a great race today in puffy and shifty conditions.

So we saw some match racing, playing the windshifts, lee bow tacks, covering / not covering, port starboard calls, overlaps at the marks, multiple lead changes throughout the race, and even a big luff from Luna Rossa forcing Ineos to tack away - and as you said all at 30-40kn+ boatspeed.

Fantastic racing that came right down to the wire in the final 500m of the last leg to determine who would win.

[MicHughV]

The Brits are putting on a marvelous display of match racing...

Prada had the lead several times...the race was theirs to win....but for some iffy calls...

The finals ware going to be a thriller. The Kiwi's are obviously the one's to beat...

The Brits beat NZ in the recent World Rugby Cup.....can they repeat ????

[Tonali99]

Originally Posted by genaea

I used to be a HUGE AC fan. Traveled to see the boats, have crew shirts, bought AC watches, have AC shot glasses, etc.

As with the OP, I haven't watched one in years. The boats look like space ships, the rules and protesting are handled by law firms, the crew are not from the country the boat is from, and the billionaires have taken over.

I am not sure why they even have crew on the boats, as they are totally unnecessary. The boats are the latest tech, and they have no need for humans onboard anymore. It is funny how easy people accept new technology for the boat, but when it comes to replacing the slowest and lowest technologically advanced system on board the boat (helmsman, navigator, crew) they all the sudden get resistant to replacing them with high tech. They wax poetic about the good old days when humans were needed to do these functions.

If you really want to make it a fun contest, at least place one boat on the coarse that is full AI. I would start watching again, just to see how badly it beats the humans at their own sport. Of course, a law firm would intercede with a declaration of how 'unfair' this is.

Meanwhile, I will enjoy my pokey little sailboats going 5.5 knots, and relish in the sound of the breeze as it goes past my old dacron sails. 2021 is a good year.

You have an interesting view. I'd like to see that AI boat myself. Just to demonstrate the capability.
Other that that ... I like seeing a boat that at least somewhat resembles mine.

[Tonali99]

Refresh my memory someone. Didn't Dennis Conner bend the rules with the first cat?

[75Driver]

I was originally against these new foiler boats but man, they put on some awesome racing. Of course most of us will never sail anything like these boats and that's what some of the old heads don't like. It used to be where AC boats looked like regular everyday boats on the outside but nothing like them on the inside. It was relatable though and even when they moved to Cats you could still relate. Now with these foilers they don't resemble anything you see on the water and why I don't like the optics but the racing is compelling. It's grown on me a LOT and I'll be watching all they way through.

[buzzard]

I agree with you Abe. I had the opportunity to watch Dennis Conner on Stars and Stripes racing off San Diego from the vantage point of a boat on the course and it was exciting to see the tactical battle. It FELT like it was 2 similar boats and so it was more of a nautical chess match to me. Lost interest years ago. But then who am I to judge? I used to like watching Conners and Borg play tennis with smaller rackets when It seemed like more strategy than the wham bam technology and power of today. Both seemed more relatable to my life of sailing and tennis. Slower.

[JPK]

I love the latest tech as much as the next guy, but I'll play devil's advocate for a second. One of the arguments for most of the "cutting edge" racing series (F1,MotoGP, etc.) is that they develop technology that eventually trickles down to masses. In the case of the current boats, they're clearly innovating like crazy, but it seems to me that most of what they're innovating is irrelevant to "normal" boats. I have no doubt that AC teams will always innovate - there's no stopping innovation. But, taking them back to displacement monohulls will arguably force them to innovate in areas that actually have a chance of trickling down to "normal" boats. I vote for getting rid of foils, hydraulics, anything electrically actuated. Then sit back and watch what happens to hull shapes, sail designs, etc. Just my $0.02.