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Old 24-01-2021, 00:12   #151
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Re: Americas Cup and simpler days

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I think to field an AC boat these days is going to set you back about $100 mil or thereabouts. What you see in the current Prada Cup races is only the tip of the iceberg. The development of these boats have undergone years of development.

It all started with the winged keel back in 1983....which was a deviation from the norm....and it hasn't stopped since. The old 12M boats were sleds in their own right....long....narrow and had every state of the art gadget, gizmo, sail cloth, hull material of the day. They were fast...for their time !!! But this isn't 1983 anymore, we've moved on.

Just coming up with the canting arm for today's AC boats was a monumental task. Some boys thought it would be a cool idea and set the wheels in motion. More power to them, I say. It takes thinking outside the box to develop new stuff. It takes courage, resolve and the ability to do some forward thinking.

We live in the age of computers. Why not make use of this incredible tool. Why not make use of the incredible people that write the various programs for these computers.

Would you live without your cell phone today ?? Go back to red telephone booths ??Off course not, besides being a phone you put in your shirt pocket, it can do a multitude of things people just take for granted these days.

Do you go to work in your ox cart....no, off course not. One of these days, you'll be able to go to work in your own flying car.

Drones, once a toy, now a part of every day life.

Etc,etc,etc.....

The Brits are doing a marvelous job. Until just recently, nobody gave them a chance. Some people would have quit, took their toy home and said fuggit. Not the Brits, power to them, looks like they are going to give the Americans and Italians, and maybe even the New Zealanders a spanking.

Boring ? Hell no !! Exciting ? Hell yes!! Bring it on !!

Vendee boats are on a similar path. Foils, canting keels, kevlar hulls, spectra lines, exotic sail cloth...you name it...if there is an advantage to be found anywhere, you can be sure it will find it's way on these boats. ...and then you have to sail these boats single handed....around the globe...not sail around, but race around....

Nah, just another race...I think not!!!
Dead on, I couldnít have said it better, except the bit about NZ and spanking. Lol
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Old 24-01-2021, 00:48   #152
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Re: Americas Cup and simpler days

I've been hunting around for better footage of the protest on the final cross, virtual eye replays here- https://www.americascup.com/en/advanced-dashboard let you pan around and view different angle and whilst they were close there was no need for the dramatic swerve from LR, i guess the TV cameras foreshorten the image to make it look closer than it was.
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Old 24-01-2021, 01:24   #153
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Re: Americas Cup and simpler days

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I've been hunting around for better footage of the protest on the final cross, virtual eye replays here- https://www.americascup.com/en/advanced-dashboard let you pan around and view different angle and whilst they were close there was no need for the dramatic swerve from LR, i guess the TV cameras foreshorten the image to make it look closer than it was.

The swerve from LR was to try & sell it to the umpires. Spithill comes from the old days when it might have worked as the umpires were in the chase boat. May still be chase boat umpires but the head umpire is watching a monitor with tracking & camera views on it.
His co-helmsman admitted it was a green light. Dont think it would be that easy with their closing speeds to be blase about it. Hope none of them get it wrong as it will make Patriot capsize & holing look like a minor incident.
It was quite impressive how the combination of crossing the water wake & the air wake rattled LR. That aerated water must have quite an effect on their feet.
Thanks for the link
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Old 24-01-2021, 07:10   #154
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Re: Americas Cup and simpler days

well, the assumption, off course, is that anyone on this thread would likely be a sailor....but not all sailors are racers...

if this recent race had been on your basic monohull, you would have had time to go below, fetch a cold beer for yourself and your mates, have a chat with the skipper, watch a few puffy clouds, and then have an amiable discussion about whether or not to to cross in front of LR.

instead, you are zipping along at 45 knots, and have scant seconds to decide whether you have room to cross or not......it's kinda like crossing a street intersection after the light has turned amber...you've got a split second to decide your move before traffic starts coming from the other direction.......
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Old 24-01-2021, 07:40   #155
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Re: Americas Cup and simpler days

a. The AC has always been an arms race between the wealthy, then syndicates. Fair enough. It does not need to be financially accessible. That's what dinghies and beer can racing are for.
b. Formula 1 racing is cool exactly because it is unreal. Same with the AC. Like going to the moon when we were kids. As a kid I though watching 12 meters match race was like watching grass grow. I still do. I got into sailing after watching beach cats race (Hobie 16 nationals, Cape May NJ, 1985 I think).



Watch it or don't. It has no more to do with Saturday afternoon sailing than Formula 1 in Monaco has to do with my driving to 7-11. But it's fun to watch. Or not. But at the end of the day, it's not our business how advertisers chose to spend their money. It's not surprising and Prada and BMW want it to be exclusive. OK.
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Old 24-01-2021, 11:28   #156
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Re: Americas Cup and simpler days

A couple of nice short videos here from the onboard cameras with onboard audio too. First the Pre-Start, and second the Last Cross going downwind.

That's definitely yacht racing



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Old 24-01-2021, 12:24   #157
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Re: Americas Cup and simpler days

the cross looks legit to me...seems like LR tried to fall off a bit to thwart the Brits...but if you stop the video it would appear that there was about a 100' gap as the stern of I passes in front of LR...off course, moving at 45 knots, that is about 40'/sec...so in theory, about 2-3 secs before a possible impact...close for sure....

sure would like to see an aerial shot of this....a birds eye view will tell the tale..
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Old 24-01-2021, 13:02   #158
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Re: Americas Cup and simpler days

Remember that the boats have an exclusion zone that is basically a rectangle about 10m bigger to each side than the projections of the bow, stern and foils. Itís to ensure that the sailors arenít tempted to try to bump boats - all they need to do is get their exclusion zones to overlap. This would still leave about 20m between hulls (basically a boat length).

The crossings was close but apparently not close enough.
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Old 24-01-2021, 14:09   #159
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Re: Americas Cup and simpler days

well, they have an umpire boat right there at the scene.....plus an " eye in the sky", and from I've gathered, I is in the clear...

I think LR could have won this race, but seems like there were some sloppy moves here and there..and also some apparent miscommunication between the Italians.

Spithill was notably absent from the post race show...wonder what that was all about....

Sir Ben notably cool as always...

One thing is for sure, nobody expected the Brits to come out on top here...so let the games begin.....
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Old 24-01-2021, 14:18   #160
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Re: Americas Cup and simpler days

A bird's eye view can be watched in the Virtual Eye replays available here (choose Race 8):

https://www.americascup.com/en/advanced-dashboard

Virtual Eye shows the boats coming within about 30m of each other, but that's bow to bow so a boat length needs to be subtracted from that, leaving around 7m. Luna Rossa's windard foil needs to be allowed for too, and that extends around 5m, leaving around 2m in the cross - although in reality the calculation isn't that simple due to the angles and motion of both boats.

The exclusion zone is really to protect the foils and being diamond shaped is minimal at the bow and stern permitting the somewhat close crosses we have become accustomed to over the years.







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Old 24-01-2021, 14:31   #161
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Re: Americas Cup and simpler days

that's what it looked like to me....100'....30M gap.......hell, I've crossed with less distance in local beer can races...

I think the speed of these boats is what makes it look so dicey.....no question, onboard I, there must have been some puckering going on at this crossing...especially for those on the port side.......
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Old 24-01-2021, 15:02   #162
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Re: Americas Cup and simpler days

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that's what it looked like to me....100'....30M gap.......hell, I've crossed with less distance in local beer can races...
But it wasn't actually a 100 feet / 30m gap between Ineos' stern and Luna Rossa's bow / foil arm, it wasn't anywhere near that much, as I already explained above...

Nobody would even be talking about this if it was 100ft / 30m...

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Old 24-01-2021, 15:47   #163
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Re: Americas Cup and simpler days

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I used to be a HUGE AC fan. Traveled to see the boats, have crew shirts, bought AC watches, have AC shot glasses, etc.

As with the OP, I haven't watched one in years. The boats look like space ships, the rules and protesting are handled by law firms, the crew are not from the country the boat is from, and the billionaires have taken over.

I am not sure why they even have crew on the boats, as they are totally unnecessary. The boats are the latest tech, and they have no need for humans onboard anymore. It is funny how easy people accept new technology for the boat, but when it comes to replacing the slowest and lowest technologically advanced system on board the boat (helmsman, navigator, crew) they all the sudden get resistant to replacing them with high tech. They wax poetic about the good old days when humans were needed to do these functions.

If you really want to make it a fun contest, at least place one boat on the coarse that is full AI. I would start watching again, just to see how badly it beats the humans at their own sport. Of course, a law firm would intercede with a declaration of how 'unfair' this is.

Meanwhile, I will enjoy my pokey little sailboats going 5.5 knots, and relish in the sound of the breeze as it goes past my old dacron sails. 2021 is a good year.
I could not have said it better myself... I wonder what these races will look like 20 years from now. Three million dollar wonders of technology and innovation without any humans on board.

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Old 24-01-2021, 15:48   #164
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Re: Americas Cup and simpler days

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But it wasn't actually a 100 feet / 30m gap between Ineos' stern and Luna Rossa's bow / foil arm, it wasn't anywhere near that much, as I already explained above...

Nobody would even be talking about this if it was 100ft / 30m...


Looked to me like bowsprit was closest point, Brits were gone by the time foil was up there. But I didnt frame by frame it.

If Spithill could have poked them with the bowsprit he wuda.


Think the windshifts are whats helping to make the racing exciting even if they drive the sailors crazy.
Still think the best design team will win the AC but I'll be happy if that proves not to be the case.
Much bigger boat speed differences with small increase in wind strength in the AC 75's

Often big differences in direction & strength with SW winds on the Waitemata.
Cain't hardly wait till Fri.
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Old 24-01-2021, 17:53   #165
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Re: Americas Cup and simpler days

jmh2002 is correct...I watched some other video's of the cross...it was tight.....using the boat length as an approximate guide to distance between the boats, I'd have to say maybe 50'.....interestingly, the wake shown behind both boats would appear to indicate the crossing angle was also narrow, it would appear that LR had opted to make it as hard as possible for IUK to make that cross.

I think IUK could have crossed behind LR and still have made it to the finish line first...ah well, all water under the bridge now...
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