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Old 15-01-2021, 20:33   #1
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Americas Cup and simpler days

I have not followed Americas Cup for a long time. Then I looked at some of those sailboats and thought "what the heck are those things".
Does anyone else but me think we should go back to having a race without so much technology where sailors actually use there sailing skills instead of using computers and sailboats that belong in space?
IMHO....I would love to see simpler sailboats sailed by sailors who can use there sailing skills and who actually are citizens of the country where the sailboat was built.
I also do not see the average citizen as interested in Americas Cup as before...and again I think it has to do with what I mentioned above.


Best,

Abe
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Old 15-01-2021, 20:53   #2
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Re: Americas Cup and simpler days

https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...ew-223827.html

27 pages of discussing the AC in that thread.

If you search my posts there you will find that you are actually mistaken to believe that the AC, even the very first race way back in 1851, was not all about the very latest technology.

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Old 15-01-2021, 21:05   #3
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Re: Americas Cup and simpler days

^^^^^^^

Abe, there are plenty of venues where the type of boats that you envision are in use, and many of those attract very top end sailors, so the competition is fierce. Classes like the Star, Etchells 22s, and the Congressional Cup come to mind.

To regress to the 12 meter class or something similar for the Americas Cup would be like running Grand Prix races in Hudson Hornets... good ole simple cars from yesterday. Nostalgic but boring to modern audiences. The AC has always been an elite event with vessels owned or sponsored by extremely rich individuals or corporations and employing professional skippers and crews and today's event is no different. It is true that the current boats are hardly recognizable as yachts, but the performance is incredible and the racing exciting for the viewers... something I never felt with the twelves!

I await the upcoming competition with interest.

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Old 15-01-2021, 22:32   #4
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Re: Americas Cup and simpler days

I just watched the second day of the Prada Cup in these new AC75 boats.

This is as much sailors sailing as it ever was in the old days, and just as much designers designing as it was in the old days.

Remember that it was a design that took the America's Cup away from the USA in 1983, not necessarily the sailors, but it was also a leader that put that team together.

Today we see sailors that can win or lose the start which can cost them the race, same as it ever was.

We see designers, engineers, and builders that can turn a dog into a winner and that is now more a factor than ever.

And we see a leader that can pull together a team of sailors, designers, engineers and builders together and create a come back that can put that team in the lead, same as it ever was.

So I, as a racing sailor myself, think this is as much a sailing event as it ever was, and I love it.

I watched them sail today confronting the patchy wind and struggling to get going, and tomorrow I am going out on my own race course, a bit slower to be sure, but the wind is expected to be light for us too, and I am motivated to sail my boat, with my team, as well as these guys sailed theirs.

This new AC sailing is true sailing, make no mistake. We don't need the "good old days".
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Old 15-01-2021, 22:43   #5
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Re: Americas Cup and simpler days

Quote:
Originally Posted by wingssail View Post
...So I, as a racing sailor myself, think this is as much a sailing event as it ever was, and I love it.

...This new AC sailing is true sailing, make no mistake. We don't need the "good old days".


Tomorrow a front is likely to come through around race time probably bringing the opposite conditions, 15kn gusting 25kn from the NW.

Ineos must be very happy to have pulled off another win today in their 'least favoured' light air conditions.

And as you said, that was a result of true sailing, sailors skill, and sailors physical effort.

Anyone who thinks that 'computers are sailing the boats' must have missed all of the athletes onboard these very physically demanding AC75 race boats.

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Old 15-01-2021, 23:01   #6
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Re: Americas Cup and simpler days

Well...

I guess you are right. We need to change with the times. As for me, I will be throwing away my compass, charts, and those ropes that had knots to measure speed. Maybe Ill will move up to one of the electronic systems....Raymarine.
Seriously, I see your point.....and after sailing for 30 years I would never go back to sailing without all the modern equipment.
Abe
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Old 15-01-2021, 23:14   #7
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Re: Americas Cup and simpler days

Quote:
Originally Posted by sailingabe41ds View Post
I have not followed Americas Cup for a long time. Then I looked at some of those sailboats and thought "what the heck are those things".
Does anyone else but me think we should go back to having a race without so much technology where sailors actually use there sailing skills instead of using computers and sailboats that belong in space?
IMHO....I would love to see simpler sailboats sailed by sailors who can use there sailing skills and who actually are citizens of the country where the sailboat was built.
I also do not see the average citizen as interested in Americas Cup as before...and again I think it has to do with what I mentioned above.


Best,

Abe

I tend to agree with the Country of origin for these types of races. It takes away slightly when a crew are from another country than which flag is flown. I think the crowds would be a bit more engaged with some nationalistic pride. It's a bit like the Olympics, what would be the point of say the soccer team or rowing 8 having mixed nationalities..



As far as technology, that is human nature and the nature of this particular race is to try and win with both man and machine. There are plenty of one design world championships but they rarely attract any sort of crowd except maybe Olympics if sailed close to shore.
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Old 15-01-2021, 23:28   #8
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Re: Americas Cup and simpler days

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Originally Posted by Bean Counter View Post
I tend to agree with the Country of origin for these types of races. It takes away slightly when a crew are from another country than which flag is flown. I think the crowds would be a bit more engaged with some nationalistic pride. It's a bit like the Olympics, what would be the point of say the soccer team or rowing 8 having mixed nationalities..



As far as technology, that is human nature and the nature of this particular race is to try and win with both man and machine. There are plenty of one design world championships but they rarely attract any sort of crowd except maybe Olympics if sailed close to shore.
i think there is a nationality rule,it was introduced in the last cup that 70% (or so) of the crew on board must be from the host nation
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Old 16-01-2021, 00:27   #9
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Re: Americas Cup and simpler days

I agreed with the op as I couldn't get excited about a race that has zero bearing on how I sail day to day amd sewd so unobtainable.

Then one day a few weeks ago I had an uncomfortably close encounter with tje Luna Rossa boat when they were put practicing. They are very very cool piece of kit and I'm now converted.
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Old 16-01-2021, 00:51   #10
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Re: Americas Cup and simpler days

The other boats wouldn't have much of a chance without their Kiwis

But I also disagree with the OP. The America's Cup has always been about outrageous boats costing fortunes to build and run, and continues to be so. The racing, even when it's all going pear-shaped, is exciting. When the wind is stronger it's going to be even more full-on.

If you like, you can watch old America's Cup matches on YouTube. It's like watching paint dry.
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Old 16-01-2021, 00:55   #11
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Re: Americas Cup and simpler days

Well said !
Tomorrow the wind is up .. so we will see some fast and furious sailing happen.
Cheers From NZ
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Old 16-01-2021, 02:30   #12
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Re: Americas Cup and simpler days

Agree with OP. I just can't relate to those sailing i-boats.
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Old 16-01-2021, 04:10   #13
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Re: Americas Cup and simpler days

Fwiw, I couldn't relate with 12 m classic boats either, flying or not, they are completely different from a (small) cruising boat.

I find it incredibly interesting. Nostalgia has no place in America's Cup races.
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Old 16-01-2021, 04:38   #14
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Re: Americas Cup and simpler days

While I find that following racing is worse than watching grass grow, I have to grudgingly admit that there have been some advantages.
Around here, it drives a healthy portion of the economy, and brings me 80% of my work.
It drives innovation, some of which trickles down to be useful to cruisers. If rope companies weren't developing newer and better lines, we wouldn't have the variety of type or range of sizes of Dyneema rope and cover options: we'd be borrowing from the commercial fishing industry (where Dynice Dux came from). They simply don't have the demand for covered loops and soft shackles and toggled strops that the race boats have made popular. Some construction techniques and materials--at least their ready availability--are owing to racing. I built a carbon and kevlar rowing dinghy for a tender only because I had easy access to materials and vaccuum pumps and expertise and all that jazz, and that only because I live in a hub of boatbuilding and racing.
The downside is that racing philosophy trickled into cruising design to the extent that there are thousands of boats that do neither well, and good cruising designs are rarely made, hard to find, and expensive (because they're not in production like Bene/Huter/Catalina/Bavaria etc).
On the whole though, I think racing is ok, as long as other people do it. And those Cup boats are advancing the cutting edge of knowledge and practice, which is good for all of us.
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Old 16-01-2021, 10:36   #15
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Re: Americas Cup and simpler days

Quote:
Originally Posted by sailingabe41ds View Post
I have not followed Americas Cup for a long time. Then I looked at some of those sailboats and thought "what the heck are those things".
Does anyone else but me think we should go back to having a race without so much technology where sailors actually use there sailing skills instead of using computers and sailboats that belong in space?
IMHO....I would love to see simpler sailboats sailed by sailors who can use there sailing skills and who actually are citizens of the country where the sailboat was built.
I also do not see the average citizen as interested in Americas Cup as before...and again I think it has to do with what I mentioned above.

Best, Abe
The America's Cup no longer interests me as well as other races that begin and end at the same port...the sole exception is the Vendee Globe for obvious reasons.

For me sailing is about man and machine overcoming nature to get somewhere...someplace other than the place you started...and the longer the better. This speaks to the design and reliability of both machine and man hanging together against the changing forces of nature (weather and seas), not simply being faster over a short given distance for the afternoon.

America's Cup is just another race. It has become a technology test bed competition for high rollers. Nothing wrong with that, I guess. There is room in sailing for all types.

~ ~ _/) ~ ~ MJH
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