Americas's Cup settles Mono vs Cat once and for all?

[Scotty Kiwi]

OK the headline is .. arguable, but

The 36th Americas Cup, Auckland 2021, is to be raced in .... monohulls !!!. But: foiling monohulls.

They'll carry a full crew, predominantly from team's own country. The sailing is expected to be more traditional, except not quite in that they'll be racing at up to 40 knots! That should throw the cat amongst the pidgeons.

Here's a link: https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/other-sports/96708812

What does everyone think? Imagine pranging a sailboat at 40 knots!

[Van Der Beek]

I prefer sailboats over catamarans. That said, calling these sailing vessels sailboats is a stretch to begin with imo.

Heck, they don't even come with a proper keel, just a race car wing - alt aircraft wing - mounted under the "hull".

Judging by the picture there are wings everywhere.

[john61ct]

multi-user supersonic hang gliders

[sailorboy1]

When it becomes a cruising "race" maybe it will matter to me.

[Van Der Beek]

When they start using actual sailboats it will become interesting to me, right now not so much.

It's a bit like Grand Prix racing, drivers no longer really drive the car they are passengers, can't get off the grid themselves need "launch control", can't shift gears anymore, need computers, etc. Oh, they also drive on flat "pool tables" most of the times these days which makes it even more boring to watch.

The "cutting edge" has taken the fun and excitement out of the sport, it really has. Less skill is required too.

[Sailmonkey]

Originally Posted by Van Der Beek

When they start using actual sailboats it will become interesting to me, right now not so much.



It's a bit like Grand Prix racing, drivers no longer really drive the car they are passengers, can't get off the grid themselves need "launch control", can't shift gears anymore, need computers, etc. Oh, they also drive on flat "pool tables" most of the times these days which makes it even more boring to watch.



The "cutting edge" has taken the fun and excitement out of the sport, it really has. Less skill is required too.

What do you consider an "actual" sailboat? A 4knot leadmine? Would your ideal americas cup boat be a valiant 42 with a crew of 12?

And if you think it takes less skill to sail a foiler......you're extremely mistaken. I've been sailing a phantom for about a year now, and I can promise you that less skill isn't what's needed to keep the dragon under control!

Material advancements have created boats that are faster than ever before. A few more cup cycles to mix the Volvo RM foils on the monos with the full flight foils of the cats will eventually yield boats capable of foiling in conditions thought impossible today.

I still don't believe we'll ever see foiling cruisers.....foiling is just not a comfortable ride.

[dcstrng]

Originally Posted by Van Der Beek

The "cutting edge" has taken the fun and excitement out of the sport, it really has. Less skill is required too.

I hear ya -- I'm not sure it is less skill (I follow F1 and various other motor-sports), but it is certainly a set of skills and technology not generally available/known to most sailors/motorists regardless of the size of their checking account... I'd like to see monohulls sailed on their own bottoms, but that's me -- I prefer 410 sprint cars to F1 too, so maybe I'm just living in the past...

[Van Der Beek]

Originally Posted by Sailmonkey

What do you consider an "actual" sailboat?

Not all sailing vessels are sailboats. Some are catamarans, others are trimarans, some even sailing rafts.

That being said.

I do not consider a snow shovel with wings flying over water craft.... a sailboat.

To each his own.

[Van Der Beek]

Originally Posted by dcstrng

I hear ya -- I'm not sure it is less skill (I follow F1 and various other motor-sports), but it is certainly a set of skills and technology not generally available/known to most sailors/motorists regardless of the size of their checking account... I'd like to see monohulls sailed on their own bottoms, but that's me -- I prefer 410 sprint cars to F1 too, so maybe I'm just living in the past...

Doesn't require much skill to put the transmission into D for dummy. It's like being a small boy at the local amusement park "driving" bumper cars. All this tech and driver aids etc has taken much of the drivers ability to actually drive, out of the equation. Oh, and don't get me started on the personalities of these drivers, they have none. Like corporate sponsored robots.

[StuM]

Originally Posted by Van Der Beek

Not all sailing vessels are sailboats. Some are catamarans, others are trimarans, some even sailing rafts.

That being said.

I do not consider a snow shovel with wings flying over water craft.... a sailboat.

To each his own.

Maybe you should consider changing your CF name to Humpty Dumpty.

"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean- neither more nor less."

[Van Der Beek]

Originally Posted by StuM

Maybe you should consider changing your CF name to Humpty Dumpty.

"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean- neither more nor less."

If you have something of value to add to the discussion feel free to do so StuM, that said, I like you thou, 50 year old 12 year olds like you with a chip on their shoulder are fun and can be a riot.

In moderation.

[Dave_S]

I understand people like to watch boats that interest them race and I'm sure they are somewhere, I'd like to watch a one make series all using the same boat as mine.

The reality is that the top level of the sport should be cutting edge, the fastest things they can make that aren't too far out of sight of one day (within a generation) using some of that technology in production boats. The problem is everyone will have a different opinion on what will filter through to production and there is no guarantee that it will.

Every boat on the water today has benefited from racing, why would anyone whish to control the benifits for future boaties ?

It's R&D that someone else pays for that we or our kids will benifit from and the rules shouldn't restrict invention.

Some say foils won't make it to cruisers, I am absolutely sure all production manufacturers have foil assisted boats on their minds, in their design department if not they are testing them in the water.

[Van Der Beek]

Originally Posted by Dave_S

I understand people like to watch boats that interest them race and I'm sure they are somewhere, I'd like to watch a one make series all using the same boat as mine.

The reality is that the top level of the sport should be cutting edge, the fastest things they can make that aren't too far out of sight of one day (within a generation) using some of that technology in production boats. The problem is everyone will have a different opinion on what will filter through to production and there is no guarantee that it will.

Every boat on the water today has benefited from racing, why would anyone whish to control the benifits for future boaties ?

It's R&D that someone else pays for that we or our kids will benifit from and the rules shouldn't restrict invention.

Some say foils won't make it to cruisers, I am absolutely sure all production manufacturers have foil assisted boats on their minds, in their design department if not they are testing them in the water.

In many ways that's true, same thing for the car industry, and the motorcycle industry, but some things don't transfer well over to the "civilian" sector, so to speak. Foils for instance, are not particularly safe either. We already have issues with modern "keel" designs on sailboats today, and they've been around for a while now.

[barnakiel]

Stupid idea to go back to mono.

Sort of like Formula1 going back to pushbikes.

Cheers,
b.

[Dave_S]

Originally Posted by Van Der Beek

In many ways that's true, same thing for the car industry, and the motorcycle industry, but some things don't transfer well over to the "civilian" sector, so to speak. Foils for instance, are not particularly safe either. We already have issues with modern "keel" designs on sailboats today, and they've been around for a while now.

I think your right, that some things won't filter through but I'm equally sure some will.

Foils seem a perfect match to overcome the slow reputation some of the luxury catamarans have and I'd be very surprised if we don't see something along the foil idea come out as an option on some production cats in 3 to 5 years or even earlier.

I imagine that the foils on productions boats will provide "X" amount of lift, probably adjustable within set safe limits. For example at 15kn you might be able to adjust between 0 and 1ton of lift on each hull. Although the first ones may be more conservative.

Maybe some tracking would be nice.