Jimmy Cornell goes Electric, with a Cat

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by harlem24

There is no access renewable electricity available atm.
So there is no real way to use it to produce H2, nore PtL/PtG which consumes even more electricity.
We will see advances in battery technology that will not allow H2/PtL/PtG to be feasable from a price perspective for propulsion.

Only in an artificial sense.

Most governments mandate renewable sources get first access to markets over traditional sources.

The result is typically, all the solar/wind power gets used and they throttle back the traditional plants. This creates inefficiencies in the traditional plants as they are used at a small fraction of their capability. The problem is the public expects power to even at night when the wind isn't blowing, so solar/wind require the cost of a backup power source. Batteries are one option but a very expensive option.

The result is as you scale up renewables to anything close to 100% of demand, you wind up with excess power during peak sun and peak wind.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by harlem24

If you are willing to pay 5€ a liter, sure.
And if you are able to afford a 911you will be willing and able...
Every normal person will not.

And battery electric systems are drastically more expensive now...but we always hear proponents talking about the future when price will come down.

Scale up synthetic fuel production and it's just as likely (maybe more likely) to come down in price...

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Yihang

Unless I read it wrong the 5 year timeline is for ground support vehicles to use hydrogen. That seems quite doable. Airliners are another story, a lot of developments before that happens.

Air would actually be easier to transition, particularly for commercial airlines.
- There are currently around 110,000 gas stations in the USA. Drivers are pretty close to random in choosing gas stations.
- There are 503 commercial airports in the USA and most airlines only serve a small percentage of those. Major airports handle a disproportionate percentage of traffic. On top of that, airlines could dedicate planes outfitted for synthetic fuels to routes where it's available.

So outfit 100 airports and you could viably transition 20-30% of flights to the new fuel and others could be added as they can be converted.

Also, I believe jet engines are easier to convert to a variety of fuel sources.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by harlem24

As far as I am aware there are no new coal plant in the making.
They are shutting down a 5 year old one in Hamburg, because the production is too expansive.
We'll see what will happen in two years.

Well, they just opened one this year in Datteln: https://www.powermag.com/germany-bri...-plant-online/

It will take not two years, but 19 years (!) to shut down coal in Germany, thanks to the shutting down of nuclear plants. Germany -- a great country; I loved living there as a student -- has the most disastrous power sector in Europe. Killing 10's of thousands of people per annum with air pollution from coal, emitting a disproportionate share of carbon, almost equal to the U.S. per capita and several times more per capita than Nordic countries, and with no end in sight -- a 19 year phase out period!! And there's even worse -- the power shortages are being made up primarily by purchasing power from POLAND, which is the only country in Europe to have even dirtier power than Germany.

It's insane! What's the point of the Nordic countries having made the effort to just about eliminate coal (everywhere but Finland, and that's less than 10%), even the UK is now coal-free for months at a time. You just cancel out the efforts of the rest of Europe with this irrational anti-nuclear madness.

It's not about building new nuclear plants -- you've got 17 perfectly good nuclear power plants, 8 of which you have shut down for purely irrational political reasons, as a political sop to a small number of nut cases who apparently are increasingly becoming a swing vote in German elections, such that no one can stand up to them. You were gettingmore than 22% of your power from nuclear in 2010, now down to 11.6%! 11 more perfectly good nuclear power plants to go

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by seandepagnier

with a 90% efficient electric drive (ocean volt is about 30%) and sufficient solar as well as hydro generators you can motor indefinitely because you won't run out of both sun and wind for long enough to deplete the battery.

Diesel power has never worked in reverse being able to fill the tank from extra energy sources and is far away from this range.

A 40hp engine is typically going into something along the size of a 40ft monohull.

Show me a monohull (or heck even a 40ft cat) that can generate even 20hp continuous from solar/hydro.

You may be able to run it 24/7 but only if you limit output to a tiny fraction of that 40hp.

[250224]

Originally Posted by harlem24

We'll see what will happen in two years.

Broaden your horizon to 20 years or so...

Hybris almost, haha, as big as Trump and pampered public media which avoids touchy subjects at all costs. Unfortunately I'm not optimistic.

I don't like nuclear. But it's borderline mental to shutdown perfectly working plants and pollute the atmosphere with coal. Wind energy progress is nice though.

[harlem24]

Originally Posted by blu3534

Broaden your horizon to 20 years or so...

Hybris almost, haha, as big as Trump and pampered public media which avoids touchy subjects at all costs. Unfortunately I'm not optimistic.

I don't like nuclear. But it's borderline mental to shutdown perfectly working plants and pollute the atmosphere with coal. Wind energy progress is nice though.

Was just talking about eletricity production after shutdown of the last nuclear plant in Germany End of 2022.
Yeah, Nuclear never had a good standing in Germany and after Fukushima everything went to shut them down.
Thing is all of the plants in Germany are about 40 years old or even older, so not sure how long it would be safe to keep them running.
And if you look at GB, France or even Finland, they are not able to build new nuclear plant without taking much more time and exeeding the budget by far.
All three plants currently in construction are at leat 10 years behind and billions over budget.
The thing GB did do way better was switching from coal to natural gas. Yes still fossil, but way better then any kind of coal.
In Germany they build a gas plant, the most modern of the word they say, but did not connect it to the grid, because it was too exspansive...
Long way to go, still.

[Yihang]

Originally Posted by harlem24

Was just talking about eletricity production after shutdown of the last nuclear plant in Germany End of 2022.
Yeah, Nuclear never had a good standing in Germany and after Fukushima everything went to shut them down.
Thing is all of the plants in Germany are about 40 years old or even older, so not sure how long it would be safe to keep them running.
And if you look at GB, France or even Finland, they are not able to build new nuclear plant without taking much more time and exeeding the budget by far.
All three plants currently in construction are at leat 10 years behind and billions over budget.
The thing GB did do way better was switching from coal to natural gas. Yes still fossil, but way better then any kind of coal.
In Germany they build a gas plant, the most modern of the word they say, but did not connect it to the grid, because it was too exspansive...
Long way to go, still.

Answer is Atlantropa guys......muhahahhahah...europe's 3 gorges.

[swanpol]

Electric Shock by Jimmy Cornell | Nautic Magazine
END OF THE ELECTRIC FOR CORNELL

[Yihang]

Originally Posted by swanpol

Electric Shock by Jimmy Cornell | Nautic Magazine
END OF THE ELECTRIC FOR CORNELL

This is a reprint of his first post regarding giving up. A new post suggests they might still try to work something out. He say the eventual decision will be posted in the next journal entry,

https://cornellsailing.com/2020/12/a...ero-journal-8/

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by swanpol

Electric Shock by Jimmy Cornell | Nautic Magazine
END OF THE ELECTRIC FOR CORNELL

I think he might have done better if he covered the whole vessel with solar. Solar power is definitely feasible for vessels.

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by wingssail

I think he might have done better if he covered the whole vessel with solar. Solar power is definitely feasible for vessels.

You’re being sarcastic. I agree, there’s a limit to solar that once crossed changes one from a boat that has solar panels to help with life afloat to a bunch of solar panels that happen to have a boat and use it to go places.

When the sun is shining!!

I appreciate my modest solar array and will be doubling it to ensure the electric galley doesn’t limit us to cold food. But I supplement it with wind power and a diesel generator, so that when we cruise in places with little sun we can still keep our batteries charged.

A fully electric tropical circumnavigation is nice, but if a boat has to rely on occasional (weekly? biweekly?) shore power to keep working at any time of year and in any (reasonable) place, that means to me that all electric is not yet ready.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by fxykty

...A fully electric tropical circumnavigation is nice, but if a boat has to rely on occasional (weekly? biweekly?) shore power to keep working at any time of year and in any (reasonable) place, that means to me that all electric is not yet ready.

Cornell's problem isn't that electric is not ready, it is that he relied on regen, which is definitely not up tp the task in my opinion.

A cat the size and weight of a Lagoon 450 or a big Outremer should be able to field a large array to keep up with domestic needs (weight might be an issue for the Outremer, panels are heavy). Motive power is another challenge.

[jmh2002]

Originally Posted by fxykty

I appreciate my modest solar array and will be doubling it to ensure the electric galley doesn’t limit us to cold food. But I supplement it with wind power and a diesel generator, so that when we cruise in places with little sun we can still keep our batteries charged.

Originally Posted by fxykty

A fully electric tropical circumnavigation is nice, but if a boat has to rely on occasional (weekly? biweekly?) shore power recharging from a source other than solar to keep working at any time of year and in any (reasonable) place, that means to me that all electric is not yet ready seems like a very reasonable compromise at this point in time.

I took the liberty of making made some edits there while looking at the situation on a more positive note. I hope you don't mind

[Sos]

When the RNLI make all electric, all weather lifeboats, then electric has come of age!