I heard there was an announcement about opening the US/Canada border on June 30

[Scorpius]

Originally Posted by hpeer

I don’t think thats the issue. Too many ways to fix it.

It may not be the whole reason but I bet it's a major one. I think our governments are reluctant to go the secure vaccine passport route because of privacy and discrimination issues. The other possibility is a database accessible to law enforcement that recorded everyone vaccinated - but again privacy issues would rear their ugly head and, since it hasn't been built from day one, it would have to be built in retrospect - a process that, in itself, could be open to fraud.

Personally I think the disease will have to be knocked flat in both countries before the border will be reopened.

[desodave]

While we have a "national" healthcare system in Canada, it is delivered provincially and vaccines are administered by provincial authorities. Databases are notoriously poor at "talking" to each other and I don't think it is a simple job to meld provincial vaccination records with Federal passports, for example. Each database will be governed by its own legislation defining how it is to be used, and limits on its use. Even the establishment of reciprocal provincial "official" vaccination records would require an enormous amount of negotiation, subsequent legislation and then demands for the federal government to fund such development. I don't think it is as easy as it sounds.

[Scorpius]

Originally Posted by desodave

While we have a "national" healthcare system in Canada, it is delivered provincially and vaccines are administered by provincial authorities. Databases are notoriously poor at "talking" to each other and I don't think it is a simple job to meld provincial vaccination records with Federal passports, for example. Each database will be governed by its own legislation defining how it is to be used, and limits on its use. Even the establishment of reciprocal provincial "official" vaccination records would require an enormous amount of negotiation, subsequent legislation and then demands for the federal government to fund such development. I don't think it is as easy as it sounds.

Yup. That too. The origin of passports can be traced back to 450BC. The beginnings of the modern passport system were hundreds of years ago in Europe (lots of little countries with lots of borders). These things take time to pull together and ESPECIALLY, as desodave points out, to get everyone on the same page before systems development can begin.

[Boston Blackie]

Originally Posted by ArmyDaveNY

Please note that the shots being provided in the U.S. are NOT vaccines. They are gene therapy. They do NOT prevent anyone from getting the virus nor do the prevent anyone from spreading it. What they do however is reduce or eliminate symptoms of those who do get it.

Regardless of how many people get the shots, it may ultimately make no difference in when the borders are opened or the rules relaxed. Mike's comment is spot on and as elections approach I think Mike's comment will become more and more the case (here in the U.S. too!).

ArmyDave

The company I founded makes products used for gene therapy. You are incorrect. Gene therapy involves supplying corrective DNA to correct a defective nonfunctional gene's DNA. That has nothing at all to do with Covid or the current vaccines.

Genes act by producing a short lived RNA message to cause the body to produce a specific protein. The RNA is rapidly destroyed. The new vaccines use RNA which is the transcript of a functional gene for viral spike protein which simply causes the brief production of spike protein by the body to stimulate the immune system. They contain no DNA and, hence, in no way modify our genes, so the body cannot keep producing viral spike protein. The end result is identical to the traditional vaccine production method of growing virus in the lab and purifying viral spike protein and injecting it.

Best regards

Boston Blackie, Ph.D.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Boston Blackie

Genes act by producing a short lived RNA message to cause the body to produce a specific protein. The RNA is rapidly destroyed. The new vaccines use RNA which is the transcript of a functional gene for viral spike protein which simply causes the brief production of spike protein by the body to stimulate the immune system. They contain no DNA and, hence, in no way modify our genes, so the body cannot keep producing viral spike protein. The end result is identical to the traditional vaccine production method of growing virus in the lab and purifying viral spike protein and injecting it.

Thanks BB, but this has all been explained to Dave and his compatriots many times over. It is wilful ignorance on their part. More information, no matter how credible or authoritative, will shake their beliefs.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by hpeer

I am surprised that the governments, Canadian and USA, have not come to some agreement over fully vaccinated people. I have my vaccine card. I have my passport. It seems like I should he allowed to pass.

What possible reason, other than fear politics, to block you that interchange?

I do think there is a very real logistical and technological challenge here, but I think it will be solved. The EU seems to be moving ahead with their vaccine passport (Green Certificate). If the EU can figure out interoperability amongst 27 different nations, it has to be possible that Canada and the US can do the same for our differing healthcare regimes.

[hpeer]

Mike,

Gaccination records are far from new, we have discussed this in the pass. We carry a “yellow book” or whatever it is called with records of our vaccinations. We have tucked our covid vaccination cards inside it.

What we have here is polarization, tribal fear, working on many levels.

Where there is a will there is a way. And the path chosen exposes the intent.

I am not spouting conspiracy but rather the mood of the herd.

Interesting times.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by hpeer

Mike,

Gaccination records are far from new, we have discussed this in the pass. We carry a “yellow book” or whatever it is called with records of our vaccinations. We have tucked our covid vaccination cards inside it.

What we have here is polarization, tribal fear, working on many levels.

Where there is a will there is a way. And the path chosen exposes the intent.

I am not spouting conspiracy but rather the mood of the herd.

Interesting times.

I don't think we're disagreeing. Although I don't see this tribal fear around establishing a Covid-19 vaccine passport that you say exists. There are some very real concerns about disenfranchising some people. And you can't dismiss the interoperability challenge when it comes to the various health record regimes and health records systems. I've spent many years reporting on healthcare, and I can tell you, the challenge of digitizing health records is very real. Getting those records to talk to each other is still a bridge too far in many cases.

As has been mentioned, counterfeiting of Covid-19 tests are already rampant. It would be child's play to fake any of the paper records I've seen. Anyone with Photoshop could easily do it now. So a secure digital record that is accessible to everyone is necessary. It isn't a small problem, but it's clearly one that can be solved.

I predict it will be solved because it is necessary. But it's not as simple as people would like it to be.

[Stu Jackson]

If it's only for intnl travel, why not just link it to passports?


What ARE the Europeans doing?



If it works, let's do it.



Oh, wait, America - if it ain't invented here...

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Stu Jackson

If it's only for intnl travel, why not just link it to passports?

In Canada the challenge here is that citizenship is a federal responsibility whereas healthcare is provincial. Currently, there is no interoperability between the passport system and healthcare systems. If there was, people who stay outside their province beyond their provincial time limits would be at risk of loosing coverage. So we have to be careful what we wish for. The unintended consequences might be severe.

There could be some sort of physical passport stamp or add on, but that gets back to the problem of counterfeiting. And retrofitting all existing passports would be a logistical challenge.

My view is that there will be a Covid-19 passport system developed, but the challenges are very real, and shouldn't be dismissed out of hand. As a simple example, if you are a BC resident but require medical care in Ontario, there is no simple way for the attending physician to access your health records, and this is within Canada.

Originally Posted by Stu Jackson

What ARE the Europeans doing?

I don't know. Seems like a model worth examining though.

Originally Posted by Stu Jackson

Oh, wait, America - if it ain't invented here...

Seems to me the challenges Canada faces in getting a national vaccine passport up and running are magnified many-fold in the US situation. Health records are held by multiple private corporation, across fifty jurisdictions. That's going to be a major headache. It's no wonder the USA has been pretty categorical is saying no to a vaccine passport.

[Souzag818]

Originally Posted by larsfforsberg

As an "anti-vaxer" I can tell you that us non-sheep never wore the masks anyway, so a "masking rule" change will not affect anything. The CDC recommendations will never matter to me. I simply will not comply with their rules that make no sense. If the rules made logical sense, I'd comply, but wearing masks outside? Locking yourself indoors? That's insane - never going to do that.

I love when people only who listen to others who tell them what they want to hear and believe, call other people sheep. Talk about irony....Pot/ kettle

[Souzag818]

Originally Posted by Boatyarddog

There you have it!!
This is Why we're not opening sooner, antivaxxers keep the economy and the public locked down. Spreaders
They don't want to help anyone but themselves.
Selfish! IMHO

I used to think those morons were only in the US. Unfortunately, they're not....

[Souzag818]

Originally Posted by Boston Blackie

ArmyDave

The company I founded makes products used for gene therapy. You are incorrect. Gene therapy involves supplying corrective DNA to correct a defective nonfunctional gene's DNA. That has nothing at all to do with Covid or the current vaccines.

Genes act by producing a short lived RNA message to cause the body to produce a specific protein. The RNA is rapidly destroyed. The new vaccines use RNA which is the transcript of a functional gene for viral spike protein which simply causes the brief production of spike protein by the body to stimulate the immune system. They contain no DNA and, hence, in no way modify our genes, so the body cannot keep producing viral spike protein. The end result is identical to the traditional vaccine production method of growing virus in the lab and purifying viral spike protein and injecting it.

Best regards

Boston Blackie, Ph.D.

Good luck with that. You can only teach people who are willing to learn...

[Paul L]

Mike's comments on the difficulty of setting up an internationally recognized vaccine authentication passport are certainly valid. I'd rather that they not get too carried away with the complexity. Make a simple system where you have a very lightweight passport like document, a web app and country or region supported database for verification. Each country can then choose the penalty for both using and selling fraudulent verifications. Canada can choose to give someone using a fake verification a paper citation with a request to please show up at an online court hearing in a month, while Singpore can make it an instant $10,000 fine, caning and 1 month in jail.

There is no need for the vaccination verifications to be 100% bullet proof, remember the vaccines aren't a 100% either.

[s/v Jedi]

Y’all are acting silly... when traveling, when did you ever have to show you were vaccinated against polio, tetanus, hepatitis etc? or show a negative test for Ebola?

Dividing people in groups is worse than people choosing a group. Denying healthy people travel unless they undergo medical procedures is sick.