Stupid things boat builders do.

[SailingHarmonie]

Working to sort out an electrical mess left by the PO on a client’s boat, and I disassemble the liner in the back of a closet in the aft cabin. What do I find? TWO of those crappy little Forespar syphon breaks hidden away where nobody would even know they were there.

Even in the most accessible of locations these are problematical because NOBODY ever changes those tiny little check valves before they fail, either spraying salt water everywhere or back flooding the system they are supposed to protect. In a place like this the first clue you had that they failed would be water pouring out of someplace with an origin you had no idea of…

Without naming names, this was a boat with a brand name that has a very good (although underserved, IMHO) reputation. Most of you would look at the outside, nod knowingly, and say, “Nice boat!”

[Kettlewell]

One I remember well was a brand new boat being exhibited at the New York Boat Show, back when it was one of the biggest shows in the country and manufacturers would bring almost their entire line. This was a boat from one of the largest major manufacturers known for producing boats to a price, but still with good designs. I was sitting in the cockpit chatting with the salesperson when I noticed that there was no fair lead for the jib sheets from the sail tracks to the winches. The jib sheets had to travel over the cockpit coamings and even then they went on the winches at a bad angle. It was just weird to see such a basic function on a sailboat not designed and built correctly. Another cruising sailboat problem I remember seeing a lot back in the day was no fair lead from deck cleats so every dock line would have to go over an aluminum slotted toerail.

[peghall]

Boat builders are also the worst sanitation system plumbers on the planet...putting holding tanks in locations that are inaccessible without cutting through bulkheads...impossibly long and convoluted hose runs including tank vent lines...I could add another paragraph.

---Peggie

[Kettlewell]

My least favorite boatbuilder mistake is putting in the engine so that it is not removeable without cutting apart the boat, and/or it is impossible or nearly impossible to get at basic maintenance points.

[S/V Illusion]

Because we all “know” how easy it is to build something containing an entire electrical system, heating and cooling system, sewage system, electronics array of systems, potable water plumbing system, power supply and distribution system, storage capacity and propulsion system, head, galley, bedrooms and salon into a (average). 40 foot long, 12 ft wide box.

“Everything is easy for the guy who doesn’t have to do it”

[SailingHarmonie]

Originally Posted by peghall

Boat builders are also the worst sanitation system plumbers on the planet...putting holding tanks in locations that are inaccessible without cutting through bulkheads...impossibly long and convoluted hose runs including tank vent lines...I could add another paragraph.

---Peggie

On this same boat, I also spent half a day repairing a waste discharge pump, that was installed below the top of the holding tank, with NO ISOLATION VALVE. And yes, the holding tank was full. I had some spectacularly impolite words for the designers while I drained half the holding tank one bucket full at a time.

[Michigan_Eric]

I am dealing with such issues on my own boat. What should be easy to fix is often impossible because it is inaccessible. Just this morning I was talking to a guy on the dock who used to work for a very reputable builder. He said that they start with the bare hull and install the engine, fuel and exhaust system, plumbing, and wiring before dropping the hull liner in place over it all. Same story for the headliner with all its wiring and the deck over that. This simplifies the build process but makes maintenance a nightmare.

[Tedd]

To be fair, this was done by the dealer not the manufacturer, but it's in keeping with the overall theme of this thread. My boat has a built-in raised area for deck penetrations such as cables. The dealer put the antenna cable in the low spot that the raised area drains into.

[NorthCoastJoe]

Even custom built boats have some screw ups. We bought our boat used but still some dumb stuff to deal with. Anchor chain locker with tiny drains and when it gets full it overflows into a crash chamber that could hold over 500 gallons of water in the bow. And a manual pump there that you need to be on deck with a hatch open to operate. That is really not thinking.

Otherwise all electric in conduit and everything inside is removable with a screwdriver, easy access everywhere if you pull enough screws.

Quit buying plastic boats. Real aluminum hull and real wood interior.

[SailingHarmonie]

Originally Posted by S/V Illusion

Because we all “know” how easy it is to build something containing an entire electrical system, heating and cooling system, sewage system, electronics array of systems, potable water plumbing system, power supply and distribution system, storage capacity and propulsion system, head, galley, bedrooms and salon into a (average). 40 foot long, 12 ft wide box.

“Everything is easy for the guy who doesn’t have to do it”

Sorry, but no.

It’s one thing if you are talking a low market, price point, mass production boat. You do get what you pay for. This on I’m working on is well over 50 feet and if you want to buy one you better bring a good bit over USD$1M to the table.

Yes, designing a boat that works well is not just hard, it is damn hard. There are very, very few builder/designer teams who can consistently do it. But it can be done, and on boats built at significant volumes. The idea that stupid design should be forgiven because getting it right is “hard” is just nonsense.

Do you forgive basic design flaws on the airplane carrying you across an ocean because it’s hard to get perfect?

[Bowdrie]

Haha, part of it might be the long march of "civilization".
It's been a long road from those who would go out to do battle with the dragon to the simps, the effete, the weak, and those who are much too easily offended by the sight of a sewage hose, or heaven forbid, even wires to a light switch.
I've worked on expensive yachts, (power and sail,) that were built from the '30s > 70s that had the factory installed vented loops for sewage mounted right out in the open on a bulkhead.
Today that would be seen as an intolerable breech of etiquette.

[dannc]

Originally Posted by Bowdrie

...
I've worked on expensive yachts, (power and sail,) that were built from the '30s > 70s that had the factory installed vented loops for sewage mounted right out in the open on a bulkhead.
Today that would be seen as an intolerable breech of etiquette.

Funny that you mention that build "choice." I was thinking of something similar when reading this discussion...

I once saw a steel boat where the sewage tank vent exited the hull right forward of an air intake for the head... Rather circular it was...

Reading the XPM-78 Vanguard blog about what has been happening recently on their build, is frustrating and hair pulling, and it ain't my boat

[Kettlewell]

Anyone here work on cars? You will find the same head-scratching stuff on vehicles that are produced by major manufacturers. I used to own Crown Vics and the stupid starter motor hung down low where it was subject to endless water, slush, salt, etc. But to remove it when it inevitably failed required six feet of socket extensions, wobble joints, etc. to reach an almost inaccessible bolt on the top towards the motor. What should have taken five minutes was often an hour job or more. Changing the oil filter requires turning the front wheels just the right amount to be able to extricate the filter from the left front suspension. My wife owned a Chrysler that required removing the front wheel and inner wheel well to change the battery. I had to take the entire front end of my current car off to change the window washer tank. My point being expecting boatbuilders to not make dumb mistakes in installation is expecting a lot.

[Island Time O25]

My wish would be for each boat designer and builder to spend at least one day trying to repair/replace every item/system and then to sail the boat for a day or two. It seems to me that they never set foot on the boats they design or build.

[Mirage35]

I sailed with an experienced skipper who kept repeating "every boat is a series of compromises." He also pointed out that the boat we were on would never have its secondary fuel filter changed until it failed, simply because there was no way to get at it without cutting a hole in a bulkhead.