Quote:
Originally Posted by Q Xopa
I understand you recommend AYBC rules and Guidelines, fine. No disagreement with from me.
|
We are entering into a technical discussion, so I will be use very specific terminology.
I recommend, that all vessel modifications be completed in compliance with "applicable marine standards" and "industry best practices".
For North America, the applicable marine standards will include those published by the ABYC (American
Boating and Yachting Council).
As I live in North America, and have been trained and certified based on these standards, I will refer to them. (The "applicable marine standards" for other jurisdictions may have different provisions that I am not familiar with.)
As we have seen earlier in the thread, these are not laws, but the standards can carry the force of law.
It behooves every
boat owner in North America, to ensure that all vessel modifications are in compliance with these standards.
If they are not, they may be cited as non-compliant in a
survey or
accident investigation, which could create vessel insurability difficulties,
insurance claim rejection, and personal
legal liability.
Under normal circumstances, if the boater has done nothing wrong, and some part of the vessel causes property damage or bodily injury, it would most likely the injured party would go after the manufacturer.
If a boater modifies their vessel from the original design, in such a way that the manufacturer never intended, the manufacturer can be off the hook, and the owner solely liable.
Quote:
I think you disagree with Portable Gas Generators 'installed in' boats.
|
There needs to be a clear understanding of what is meant by "installed in".
A reasonable definition of "installed" would be a portable generator "attached to the vessel by means of fastening", and "installed in" to mean "installed" within some form of enclosure (which could be a part of the original vessel construction or any additional enclosure "installed" on the vessel.)
It is not that I "disagree" with Portable Gas Generators "installed in"
boats.
I believe it would be difficult to do so, in a way that would be compliant with ABYC standards.
One of the underlying principles of compliance is the requirement to follow the manufacturers instructions, and all applicable ABYC standards.
I checked the Honda EU2200i instruction manual, and found...
Page 7, Generator
Safety - Fire & Burn Hazards – Do not enclose the generator in any structure.
Page 8, Generator Safety – Refueling – Refuel only outdoors in a well ventilated area and on a level surface.
Page 18 – Features – Ground Terminal Neutral Floating –
Page 27 – For proper cooling, allow at least 1 m (3 ft) of empty space above and around the generator.
Page 70 – Emission control system information – Tampering and Altering – Removal or alteration of any part of intake, fuel, or exhaust systems.
Page 81 - Warranty – Exclusions – Damage resulting from exposure to sea water, or use in an application for which product is not designed.
My belief is that if one of these generators was put in an enclosure, for use in a marine application, and a problem arose, the manufacturer would claim the user made unauthorized modifications, and the product was never intended for that application, and the boater would be on the hook with respect to liability, if it was determined that the "installation" caused or contributed to the problem.
Beyond this, to be ABYC compliant, any new
installation would have to meet all of the provisions of the standard ABYC A-27 - ALTERNATING
CURRENT (AC) GENERATOR SETS, published 7/16
This ABYC standard, being 23 pages,
references the following additional standards:
ABYC A-4, Fire Fighting
Equipment
ABYC E-11, AC and DC
Electrical Systems on Boats
ABYC H-2, Ventilation of Boats Using Gasoline
ABYC H-24, Gasoline Fuel Systems
ABYC H-33,
Diesel Fuel Systems
ABYC P-1,
Installation of Exhaust Systems for
Propulsion and Auxiliary Engines
ABYC T-5, Safety Signs and Labels
ABYC TH-22, Educational Information About Carbon Monoxide
ASTM E145-68, Standard Specification for Gravity-Convection and Forced-Ventilation Ovens
33 CFR 183.590
40 CFR 1060
ANSI/IEEE 115, Test Procedure for Synchronous Machines
SAE J1191, High Tension Ignition Cable Assemblies – Marine
SAE J1223, Marine Carburetors and Fuel Injection Throttle Bodies
SAE J1294,Ignition Distributors – Marine
SAE J1527, Marine Fuel Hoses
SAE J1928, Devices Providing Backfire Flame Control for Gasoline
Engines in Marine Applications
UL 94, Flammability of Plastic Materials for
Parts in Devices and
Appliances
UL 514C, Non-metallic Outlet Boxes, Flush-device Boxes, and Covers
UL 746C, Polymeric Materials Used in
Electrical Equipment Evaluations
UL 1111,Marine Carburetor Flame Arresters
UL 1120, Marine Engine Ignition Systems and Components
If the generator were modified to have a portable
fuel tank then ABYC H-
25 PORTABLE MARINE GASOLINE FUEL SYSTEMS, would also apply.
Naturally, I can't go through all of these standards and render an opinion if any specific generator model is suitable or compliant for use "on" or "built in" to a
boat.
Most boaters I see using a portable generator, are tied to a
dock, and set the generator on land. In my opinion, it would be hard for the manufacturer to claim there is something about this use, that is "not as intended".
If the portable generator is operating while sitting on a boat, that's a little more tricky. The first thing I would do is contact the manufacturer to verify that was an "approved" or "suitable" application. Then go through the ABYC standards to see what applies, and if the generator is compliant as is, or needs to be modified. (I know at the very least, the floating ground issue needs to be addressed, per ABYC E11.)
As soon as one "installs" the generator on the boat, then pretty much all of these standards are going to apply, and as soon as one makes it "built in", there are many, many issues to address.
Far more than some have suggested in this thread.
For me to go through the standards to find out what would be needed to make the portable gas generator compliant would likely cost the client more than an equivalent marine
diesel generator, let alone the cost of the modifications to the portable gas generator and/or vessel.
Now, when asked about portable gas generators, I explain the issues, and recommend my clients consider a diesel "marine" generator.