Honda 2000 built in.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

If you are going to be on a boat learn to live with the stuff that goes with it.

Not quite i cant stand the banging of an improperly secured halyard banging on the mast in a breeze .

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by newhaul

Not quite i cant stand the banging of an improperly secured halyard banging on the mast in a breeze .

Well a hanging halyard doesn't go with boating any more than a slamming fence gate goes with having a house.

Ive noticed over the years that banging halyards are on boats with no one on them. When they do come and go they don't have that extra 20 seconds to deal with the line.

[warrior 90]

Originally Posted by Pizzazz

This thread has become too long to be truly useful but one this is for sure, there is a tremendous interest in a small gas powered generator. For the driving force here is that the Honda is an inverter generator which means that is very efficient (high voltage) and that it can scale the speed of rotation to the demand.
SV Pizzazz

I agree, 24 pages .... way toooooo long....

BUT the topic can get quiet complex...
ALL depends where You wanna put the limits

Yes, let´s say the average boat 500 W Solar x 6 hours = 3000 W/DAY

Why do I need a bigger generator ????
with all the disadvantages ????
With Solar 3000 W + Honda 1 hour 2000 W = 5000 W

Of course it all depends on asking the right questions

Nº2
A Honda 2200 cost around 1000 $
PLUG & PLAY
I can charge batteries, have AC power and with a soft starter I can have a good size AirCon

How much does Solar cost, including installation > solar arch ?
And NO AirCon ?

I love solar but this is a legitimate point

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

mooring agreement for when you are allowed to run a generator out on your deck.

Wait ...... those hours only apply to the “non Honda type” of generators. Hondas can be run run anytime.

Yes, the mooring agreements
24 pages ?....YES, too many NON HONDA GENERATORS on the deck.

That´s why there is so much smog

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by warrior 90

I agree, 24 pages .... way toooooo long....

BUT the topic can get quiet complex...
ALL depends where You wanna put the limits

Yes, let´s say the average boat 500 W Solar x 6 hours = 3000 W/DAY

Why do I need a bigger generator ????
with all the disadvantages ????
With Solar 3000 W + Honda 1 hour 2000 W = 5000 W

Of course it all depends on asking the right questions

:

then there is the battery question .

200ah worth of daily power production what type of batteries are you feeding ? What is your average daily power usage?

If daily usage is easily covered by average daily solar output then you will rarely run your Honda . And when you need to run it in the morning to get the most out of your shore charger.
For example with Lfp using 150ah you will easily get by on less than an hour of generator run time a day on low solar days. On good solar days ( more often than not) then no generator.

If you are using it for several hours a day to run air conditioning get an installed marine unit you will actually come out ahead.

[warrior 90]

Originally Posted by newhaul

then there is the battery question .

200ah worth of daily power production what type of batteries are you feeding ? What is your average daily power usage?

If daily usage is easily covered by average daily solar output then you will rarely run your Honda . And when you need to run it in the morning to get the most out of your shore charger.
For example with Lfp using 150ah you will easily get by on less than an hour of generator run time a day on low solar days. On good solar days ( more often than not) then no generator.

If you are using it for several hours a day to run air conditioning get an installed marine unit you will actually come out ahead.

ARE YOU SURE ABOUT THE NUMBERS ?

And what if I don´t use the AirCon 365 day ?
And what about coming from up North to spend only 2-3 month in the Bahamas ?

You have to pay all the penalties for that extra power. Higher costs for marine inboard installation,spares and maintenance. More complicated trouble shooting and repair+ more tools required+more spares. and the list goes on and on.... things add up.
Reality is ... Reliability depends on quality of maintenance and by pure nature I would estimate IN GENERAL that those little Honda Gen receive much better care compared to fixed Marine Gens. That is why they are so reliable.

Just ask Yourself what happens next ....

if Your Marine Gen won´t start ?
If Your little Honda won´t start ?

and then ask WHY and in which case do You have more questions ?

With quality maintenance both will always start.

> Longevity ? How much does it cost to replace a complete Honda GXR 120 engine that is faster and easier to replace then most alternators, starter motors on Marine Gens and.... I can buy it on almost any corner.......not even mentioning the price difference .... and I do that job sitting in an arm chair with a beer on the table

No price of Honda GXr 120 on the web but every Lawn mover company has the engine for sale on their web site
How many lawn mover companies are their ?

But for orientation COMPLETE GX 120 with tank, air filter, carburetor, etc slightly different then Mod GXr on Amazon 350 US$
+ shipping 34,8 Lbs
How many lawn mover companies are their ? ...in every city ?
...... almost everywhere in the world ?

Yeah, NO SHIPPING....on the way back from the super market

https://www.amazon.com/Honda-GX120UT.../dp/B004NYB1XY

How much cost a new Diesel engine $$$$$
How much is shipping Lbs ?????
How do I get that weight out of the bilge ?
How much $$$ 1 hour of labour Diesel mechanic ?... on the boat ?
How long do I have to wait ?
How much cost 1 day waiting in the Marina ?..... Hahaha, without AC ?

YeYe, that´s a lot of beer

Like I said... arm chair with a can of beer on the table
Keep a new engine packed and sealed in the bilge and there is still more room.... 400 $ and I will be having fun.
That is most likely the most that can happen.
I wished everything on the boat would be that simple.

I might be wrong but I would not bet on Diesel cheaper

That's why people will keep on using them

[Pizzazz]

Here are some take aways from the discussion for me. I hope they make sense.

1. Inverter-generators are very useful on boats because they are light, cheap and economical. There is the Honda 2200W @ 47 lb and the Handy Tools 700W @ 19 lb that seem to be popular and get good reviews. The reason why these generators are so light is inherent in the gas engine design: lower compression which means they do not need thick metal or a heavy flywheel. Diesel gensets are great but expensive and especially on small boats they make no sense (i.e. the typical diesel generator uses a similar engine to my main propulsion engine).

2. The key issues with portable generators are lack of ignition protection/petrol vapors, floating neutral and CO generation. The petrol vapors rule out electric start - it is too much effort to make it work safely. It also means that they should not be installed below deck. The floating neutral is a non-issue if used right and the CO generation needs to be managed.

3. So, we need to mount it somewhere on deck. The following have been mentioned: swim step, anywhere on deck, anchor locker if air tight, propane locker if there is space (consider the smaller model mentioned above), an enclosure on the stanchions or raise it to the top of the mast on a halyard, possibly with stubs in the mast groove so that it does not fly around. All of these ideas may work well, depends on the boat.

4. For me, the best way would be in the forward anchor locker. It is enclosed, it is about 20 feet from the cockpit on my small boat and the smaller 700W genset will fit nicely. A key question for me would be do I replace the stock muffler with something better, can I dip the exhaust in the water without affecting performance too much.

5. In terms of charging the batteries, for me this discussion has been very helpful. I have 100W of solar on the dodger for emergency purposes. I have been thinking about adding 300W more for about 2 years and just can't find the space. I like to keep the bimini clean so that I can push it back when racing and all the other places look ugly. Then, 300W of solar will give me 80-90 AHrs of capacity which is equivalent to 1 hour of generator time. It is kind of a no brainer that the inverter generator is better.

6. Lastly, think about actual usage scenarios. The key reason for a generator to begin with is to run air con and charge the batteries. The latter I discussed. The former, by definition requires that the boat be closed to maintain the temperature. I bet that if you have the inverter generator up the mast and your boat is closed you will not hear a thing (nor your boat neighbors especially if you have some enclosure to deflect the sound upwards). If you have a small boat, get the 700W, it will rund a 5-6,000 BTU AC and you only need to haul up 20 lb. If have a medium size boat, get the Honda 2kw, it will rund a 14,000 BTU unit and exercise more. If you have a larger boat, just run your diesel genset.

Happy New Year to all, time for the first sail of the new year.

SV Pizzazz

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by warrior 90

ARE YOU SURE ABOUT THE NUMBERS ?

And what if I don´t use the AirCon 365 day ?
And what about coming from up North to spend only 2-3 month in the Bahamas ?

You have to pay all the penalties for that extra power. Higher costs for marine inboard installation,spares and maintenance. More complicated trouble shooting and repair+ more tools required+more spares. and the list goes on and on.... things add up.
Reality is ... Reliability depends on quality of maintenance and by pure nature I would estimate IN GENERAL that those little Honda Gen receive much better care compared to fixed Marine Gens. That is why they are so reliable.

Just ask Yourself what happens next ....

if Your Marine Gen won´t start ?
If Your little Honda won´t start ?

and then ask WHY and in which case do You have more questions ?

With quality maintenance both will always start.

> Longevity ? How much does it cost to replace a complete Honda GXR 120 engine that is faster and easier to replace then most alternators, starter motors on Marine Gens and.... I can buy it on almost any corner.......not even mentioning the price difference .... and I do that job sitting in an arm chair with a beer on the table

No price of Honda GXr 120 on the web but every Lawn mover company has the engine for sale on their web site
How many lawn mover companies are their ?

But for orientation COMPLETE GX 120 with tank, air filter, carburetor, etc slightly different then Mod GXr on Amazon 350 US$
+ shipping 34,8 Lbs
How many lawn mover companies are their ? ...in every city ?
...... almost everywhere in the world ?

Yeah, NO SHIPPING....on the way back from the super market

https://www.amazon.com/Honda-GX120UT.../dp/B004NYB1XY

How much cost a new Diesel engine $$$$$
How much is shipping Lbs ?????
How do I get that weight out of the bilge ?
How much $$$ 1 hour of labour Diesel mechanic ?... on the boat ?
How long do I have to wait ?
How much cost 1 day waiting in the Marina ?..... Hahaha, without AC ?

YeYe, that´s a lot of beer

Like I said... arm chair with a can of beer on the table
Keep a new engine packed and sealed in the bilge and there is still more room.... 400 $ and I will be having fun.
That is most likely the most that can happen.
I wished everything on the boat would be that simple.

I might be wrong but I would not bet on Diesel cheaper

That's why people will keep on using them

You dont want honest opinions and input dont ask for them .

Now for that couple months in the Bahamas do you really need air conditioning when not in a marina with shore power available?

[warrior 90]

Originally Posted by newhaul

You don´t want honest opinions and input don´t ask for them .

Now for that couple months in the Bahamas do you really need air conditioning when not in a marina with shore power available?

Of course I do

and I get along just fine without AirCon
The only days I really like AirCon is when it is very hot during the day and then there is no wind at night.
Without Aircon 3 - 5 KW per day ?
I get much more sun then the average 6 hours solar and panels @ 22% effic.

[Franziska]

Btw. there are 2kw inverter gensets on the market which have factory built in electric AND as back up, manual start. Ours has...

[warrior 90]

Originally Posted by Franziska

Btw. there are 2kw inverter gensets on the market which have factory built in electric AND as back up, manual start. Ours has...

Yes there are but it´s not a HONDA with a almost world wide service system

There is the
DQ 2200 ER with E Start - Remote Control @ 28 Kg/62 Lbs > 780 €
DQ 2800 ER with E Start - Remote Control @ 27 KG/59,4 Lbs > 800 €

Weight acceptable for PORTABLE

Both also have ReCoil Hand Crank.

https://www.denqbar.com/tpl/download...comparison.pdf

Yes, GREAT
and Good Price
But where are the spare parts that I will need to rely on

Noise 55 and 56 dBA no info on ECO Mode
Honda 48 to 57 dBA


Yeah, buy in China and put Your name and address on it
Now they try to protect their spare part business...
Diff. part numbers + expensive
And in the end nobody makes enough money for a decent service
+ Shipping cost ???

There are lawn mover companies with Honda spares all over the world
I need some parts fast. How long does it take ?

REMEMBER: This is supposed to be Your Back Up for AC if inverter fails and Battery Charger after solar when not using Main Engine

Of course with main engine but now You need HA alternator + expensive pulleys for different belt + ext regulator

Honda = clean charging with specific charger for any type of battery LFP!!!
Clean 70 - 80 Amps with Honda

Honda = +/- same weight as 12V, 1.92kWh LiFeYPO4 set 160Ah

https://files.ev-power.eu/inc/_doc/a...60AHA_TALL.pdf

What is better over all ?......... versatil AC on board for AirCon, Second real power source for FAST battery charging

Honda aprox. 1200 $
or add on more Lithium set 12 V, 160 Amp/1,92 kWh @ 1147 US$ ???