Encouraging live aboards

[JoetheCobbler]

Wow! That's amazing!
This thread surely demonstrates that there are many ways to live.
And alot of different perspectives, preferences and situations.
It's certainly made me consider the question of land home ownership vs solely living aboard, in whatever definition you prescribe.
The one thing about land/ home " ownership" is, you never actually " own" the land/ house you mearly rent it from a landlord that can raise the rent or evict you ,if they deem appropriate.
If you think you actually own Land,stop paying the taxes, you'll meet the actual owners!
A boat,on the other hand,is yours.
If you can keep it Sailing, it'll always be yours .

[Mike OReilly]

One thing to consider is that those of you tied to expensive marina costs can always set your sails and travel elsewhere. There are places where costs are a smaller percentage of what most of you quote. But it does require that you go a bit further off the beaten path.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Franziska

Sorry, but that is utter nonsense. For the price of a house say 250 000€ you could buy many many used boats.
If you are not obsessed with marinas like some are, it can absolutely be cheaper.

Even in a marina it can be a good deal cheaper.

Find an apartment on the water in a popular area and expect to pay thousands per month.

A modest used boat can be much cheaper and even in popular areas, you can get long term slips for hundreds per month.

Not for everyone but certainly doable.

[SV Confianza]

Originally Posted by dwedeking2

Here in Key West it is way cheaper to live on a boat vs living on land even paying for a city mooring. A large portion of the hospitality industry does it. some because they like the lifestyle others as a temp solution to save up money and move on to other things.

I do wish they kept more moorings open for visitors. It seems to be a weird system of squatting and other squatters shooing away would be visitors. No problem with the city keeping long term moorings, just mark it as such, and have a separate section for visitor moorings. Why make those that use them long term have to "defend" their spot if the city is allowing it anyway.

After our first, let's say, inhospitable reception, we just anchored nearby, and then had to learn a whole new dance about whether we were allowed at the dingy dock.

[zachduckworth]

Build more housing, forgive student loans . Otherwise stfu.

[Sos]

The Wynns video was talking about million dollar boats / apartments in one particular place and comparing costs. Not about derelict type boats.
I don't know how watching that video would make anyone think I going to get a junk boat and live on it.
There are plenty more channels that would be more likely to get people thinking in that manner.

[letsgetsailing3]

Originally Posted by zachduckworth

Build more housing, forgive student loans . Otherwise stfu.

Why forgive student loans?


That's just pushing one person's debts onto someone else.


Why not mortgages or cars, too? Forgive ALL debts! Makes as much sense.

[Franziska]

Originally Posted by letsgetsailing3

Why forgive student loans?


That's just pushing one person's debts onto someone else.


Why not mortgages or cars, too? Forgive ALL debts! Makes as much sense.

Don't want to start a big political discussion, but as you ask...

Because it does give less privileged folks a more even start in life?

The US should really think about trying to get their society to reunite by reducing social barriers.
It's actually even in the interest of folks living a wealthy lifestyle currently.
Devided societies are usually doomed.

Btw. The above has NOTHING to do with communism. It's just a mild adjustment of radical free capitalism. Radicalism of any kind hardly ever led to good things historically.
Europe fairs on average fairly well with a slightly more moderate capitalism.

Communism is a totally different system which fails, because it is based on wrong assumptions on the nature of the people.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Franziska

Please. Just stop imposing your specific situation as a general situation.

As I have explained there are other folks where your calculation House=Cheaper than boat does not add up.

For many its quite the opposite, we are just one of those cases.

My situation is not specific it applies to anyone living in my country. There are very small house taxes. ,low to free public utilities , and generally low running costs. Maintenance on concrete /PVC houses is low cost , infrequent and cheap.

Leaving aside the purchase price ( which is an investment decision ) living on a functional boat capable of being used is considerably more expensive then simply maintaining a house

Please stop bending the facts to suit your own perspective

The main point I was making

Voluntarily deciding to live on a functional boat as opposed to something semi derelict SHOULD be just that , voluntary. The costs are therefore irrelevant.

No way such people be “ encouraged” to consider boats as an alternative to “ housing” if you cannot afford a house a boat is NO substitute for a “home”

Social housing schemes should exist to house those that cannot buy outright. Some form of enforced boat living is an abomination.

So if you have money to care for and maintain a boat in proper order hey live wherever you like.

But it’s not a substitute for housing policy and should never be promoted as such

So again living on a boat is not a housing substitute. It’s an activity for the relatively rich.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by JoetheCobbler

Wow! That's amazing!
This thread surely demonstrates that there are many ways to live.
And alot of different perspectives, preferences and situations.
It's certainly made me consider the question of land home ownership vs solely living aboard, in whatever definition you prescribe.
The one thing about land/ home " ownership" is, you never actually " own" the land/ house you mearly rent it from a landlord that can raise the rent or evict you ,if they deem appropriate.
If you think you actually own Land,stop paying the taxes, you'll meet the actual owners!
A boat,on the other hand,is yours.
If you can keep it Sailing, it'll always be yours .

Absolute Nonsense ,

proper countries have rock solid title laws for property ownership.

I own my house freehold . It can never be taken from my possession. I “ own” in 100% and the land under it

Long term tenants over 4 years have tremendous security , it’s takes court orders to evict them , if they pay rent they cannot be evicted

In addition there’s a whole body of laws that only apply to one’s “curtilage “ these DO not apply to boats.

On the contrary a boat can be seized and held under lock and key for many many reasons And such boat ownership is far far more tenuous then a house which has huge protection in legislation.

( in most European countries your boat can be searched at will by the authorities but your house requires court sanctioned orders )

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by letsgetsailing3

Why forgive student loans?


That's just pushing one person's debts onto someone else.


Why not mortgages or cars, too? Forgive ALL debts! Makes as much sense.

Because making people pay absorbitant feee to be educated is an abomination In any wealthy developed country. Most countries subsidise third level from the public purse that’s right and proper

The US student loans were both morally wrong and unsustainable hence it’s easy right to write them off

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Franziska

Please. Just stop imposing your specific situation as a general situation.

As I have explained there are other folks where your calculation House=Cheaper than boat does not add up.

For many its quite the opposite, we are just one of those cases.

Again I have provided you with facts. Those costs would apply to most European countries , where low property taxes are common. In adoption European social policies would provide a range of supports for assisted home living of your in financial difficulty.

The US is completely an outlier is this regard and cannot be used a a model for anything

In Greece here houses can be got from 50 k upwards.

Boats can be got from 40 k upwards.

I’m not comparing purchase pricing because in 10 years time your boat is worth a fraction but your house will have significantly appreciated.

Elsewhere if you can’t afford a house that state will assist you with various schemes to buy one either shared equity, cheap loans , long term rental purchase or in some cases provide you with a home free.

Last time I looked the state doesn’t see giving u a boat cheaply as a aim !!!!

Again living on a boat is not an acceptable substitute for proper social housing policy.

Living on a boat is a minority undertaking for those who voluntarily choose it.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Phyrcooler

I was quite displeased to find a pair of popular YouTube channels (Gone with the Wynns / Nautistyles) collaborating on a video that encourages the idea of “Live on a boat… it’s cheaper than ashore”. While their example was a million dollar used yacht, the overall impact of their statements apply at all levels. In my humble opinion, this is a horrible message they are sending. We have enough issues with people trying to move onto boats as a way of living cheaply. Both coasts are seeing more and more anchoring grounds being restricted as jurisdictions try to keep out the derelict liveaboards. I’m not against a boater living aboard. I AM against encouraging complete non-boaters to go move onto a boat because it’s cheaper than ashore!



I’ve enjoyed many of The Wynns videos in the past due to their interesting travels, and excellent videography, but this one kind of set us off as we watched last night.



Here’s a link. If you bother to watch, I hope you’ll comment on the stupidity of this video. I didn’t bother watching the Nautistyle video as I have never like their channel.



https://youtu.be/qtu7IPvfWWs

You are completely correct.

It’s entirely inappropriate to suggest boat living is an acceptable substitute for housing policy as a general social aim. Again it’s rich people telling poor people how to live while glossing over 100s of issues and details.

[Franziska]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Again I have provided you with facts. Those costs would apply to most European countries , where low property taxes are common. In adoption European social policies would provide a range of supports for assisted home living of your in financial difficulty.

The US is completely an outlier is this regard and cannot be used a a model for anything

In Greece here houses can be got from 50 k upwards.

Boats can be got from 40 k upwards.

I’m not comparing purchase pricing because in 10 years time your boat is worth a fraction but your house will have significantly appreciated.

Elsewhere if you can’t afford a house that state will assist you with various schemes to buy one either shared equity, cheap loans , long term rental purchase or in some cases provide you with a home free.

Last time I looked the state doesn’t see giving u a boat cheaply as a aim !!!!

Again living on a boat is not an acceptable substitute for proper social housing policy.

Living on a boat is a minority undertaking for those who voluntarily choose it.

I fully keep standing by the fact that there are absolutely cases where it's cheaper to live on a boat (seaworthy at anchor) than to own and run a house.
I do also accept that this might not be the case for everyone.

I am not advocating for people moving onto the water to live cheaper (which this thread is about), but I am fundamentaly opposed to someone making a general statement that living in a seaworthy boat can not be cheaper than living in a house on shore.
As always in life, different folks have different approaches to life and one should never assume that one's own approach is the same for everyone else.

I fully agree that it's nonsense to promote living on the water instead of social housing on shore. I do not know any country where living on the water would be promoted instead of helping with social housing.

I'm out of this now, as you always seem to have the correct answer (and not just in this thread) it's pointless to continue arguing with you.
You certainly have a lot of knowledge and are kind to share it but, the ever present effort to educate others in trying to make them take on your very personal point of view, well...

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Franziska

I fully keep standing by the fact that there are absolutely cases where it's cheaper to live on a boat (seaworthy at anchor) than to own and run a house.
I do also accept that this might not be the case for everyone.

I am not advocating for people moving onto the water to live cheaper (which this thread is about), but I am fundamentaly opposed to someone making a general statement that living in a seaworthy boat can not be cheaper than living in a house on shore.
As always in life, different folks have different approaches to life and one should never assume that one's own approach is the same for everyone else.

I fully agree that it's nonsense to promote living on the water instead of social housing on shore. I do not know any country where living on the water would be promoted instead of helping with social housing.

I'm out of this now, as you always seem to have the correct answer (and not just in this thread) it's pointless to continue arguing with you.
You certainly have a lot of knowledge and are kind to share it but, the ever present effort to educate others in trying to make them take on your very personal point of view, well...

You agree with me entirely. I merely posted the facts rather then simple unsupported opinion which dominates this thread

Living in a house can be cheaper but not always I except that
Living in a house has more protection from the law
Owning a house is an appreciating assets a boat isn’t.
House living confers domicile and other certain rights , a boat is regarded as a transient abode
A house comes with financial social support structures etc.

I’m sorry if I’m right but these are indisputable facts.