Encouraging live aboards

[SV_FlyingTigress]

I think you said your problem was just that

Originally Posted by Phyrcooler

.... a popular dedicated cruising couple would produce a video that, when cut to its essence, was basically encouraging land dwellers to go buy a boat and move aboard. That is all.....

That is basically what most *all* Youtube cruising channels do by showing the nature and detail of the cruising life. And that idea by way of example (many many Youtube boating channels post their budgets ), seems pretty cheap/affordable to most compared to land life... considering you get that "million dollar view". People naturally do the math. I mean how many recent *new* cruisers have you met that saw it on Youtube first. I would submit that that dynamic is responsible for a lot of the current and future buyers market pressure. As a stepping stone, a low budget fixer-upper boat is the likely first purchase. Basically I think the outcome you wish to avoid is infinitely more a function of Youtube existing than that particular episode existing. Just a thought.

[JoetheCobbler]

Several people posted reference to people being " forced" to live aboard

Could you please be specific as to the location this is taking place?
I want to move there.
Preference is continental USA East Coast, thanks in advance!

[smj]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Buy an asset it’s an asset it’s not cheap or dearer it’s like comparing a Toyota and a rolls Royce ,. So purchase price comparisons are nonsense

It’s “ operating costs “ you need to compare a boat kept in good condition , insured and maintained is a lot more expensive then a house

My house costs 150 to insure my property tax is 200 a year , my water and sewerage is free and my electricity is 17cent a KWH

My boat costs 750 to ensure , my marina bill runs to thousands , my cruising taxes run to 200. I pay for water and pump outs and my electricity is 29 cent per KWh

Maintenance on my house is minimal and on my boat runs to 1000s a year.

All I avoid living in the boat is avoiding chainsawing and chopping and splitting a stack of firewood every year !! ( mind you I like avoiding that dammed task )

Living on a boat is a voluntary decision. No one should be forced into that decision. On e itscs voluntary decision that’s fine.

Live aboard such never be seen in a functioning society as a substitute for proper social housing policy.

On the houses that I build and occasionally own my property tax and insurance runs about $1,000 per month, utilities $200-$300 per month, way more than the costs of owning and operating our boat. The house no doubt gains in value, while the boat maintains it value or may depreciate slightly.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Franziska

We are equally liveaboards by choice and our boat is sailed actively.

I personally do not own a house and would not want one.
I know plenty of folks who do have houses though.
Perfectly happy living on the boat.

I guarantee you it costs me much much less than buying and maintaining a house in Germany.

Apart from the initial purchase I have no costs for electricity and water.
We have a lot of solar and a desalinator.

Running costs are sometimes fuel for the engine and 75l Diesel for cold days heating, which is enough for the cold season down here in southern Portugal.

Heating a house alone is much more expensive. Add electricity, insurance and so on to it...

I heat my house with timber €190 a year but I fell it , split it dry it etc.

Houses can be very cheap if you labour it.

Of course I live 9 months in Greece on a boat , heating is cheap here too as it’s warmer than Portugal.

But overall I’d say the operating costs of the house are 50% of a boat

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Fore and Aft

Mike, I have no doubt it is, but is it easier? Plenty of times when it's rained for a solid week, I used to question our choices about living aboard.
I think the real issue Phycrooler is more annoyed about ferals on the water in unseaworthy boats. It's becoming a real issue it seems worldwide as the cost of renting has skyrocketed.

Hmmm, is it easier…? It depends. Boats require a lot of maintainance work, but then so does a land house. And most houses are a lot bigger than most boats, so I’m not sure it’s a clear win for boats. It’s generally easier to access services and paid help to fix house problems, but I’m not convinced it’s easier overall.

I haven’t experienced the growth of otherwise homeless people moving onto boats. My cruising grounds have not been amenable to this sort of thing (semi-remote, real winter for 1/2 the year). But I’ve certainly read about the issue here. It’s not a simple problem.

On the one hand, no one wants their neighbourhood to be junked up with disrespectful folks. But on the other, if people are being pushed into boat life due to economic realities, who are we (the privileged) to say they can’t or shouldn’t? Everyone has to live somewhere, so maybe we should try and help these people learn this new lifestyle, rather than find ways to make it hard for them. But as as I say, this is a complex problem — one way above my pay-grade to fully understand.

[boatman61]

Here in Portugal a 1-2 bed apartment would cost me between €450 and €650 a month.. on top of that would be water, electric and gas.. so that works out to €5500 to €7800/annum before utilities..
I can get a 12mths marina berth for a <10metre boat for less than €2000 including water and electric representing a saving of €3500+ to €5800+ per year.
Okay it's not on the Algarve but it's central for sailing a couple of days to the Algarve or a couple of days to the ria's of Galicia.. and it's nice safe marina 1.5km upriver from the sea with security and good facilities, toilet/showers/laundry.
Nice town to boot with good raill links to Lisbon or Porto.
So yes, for me living on a boat would definitely be cheaper.
Boat maintainance would be easily covered by the savings of €35000/€58000+ over 10yrs.

PS; thinking about it, the savings would be enough to change boats every 5yrs n bugga de upkeep..

[letsgetsailing3]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

I heat my house with timber €190 a year but I fell it , split it dry it etc.

Houses can be very cheap if you labour it.

Of course I live 9 months in Greece on a boat , heating is cheap here too as it’s warmer than Portugal.

But overall I’d say the operating costs of the house are 50% of a boat

Clearly, your house is in the middle of nowhere, and your boat is not. Houses are absolutely not cheap. They're usually taxed to pay for local services and for things like educating children. Often, transient boats are able to avoid or minimize those costs.

Like the old saying goes, why do robbers rob banks? Because that's where the money is. Now, why do governments tax homeowners?

You can not derive any general rule of thumb that applies to everyone else from that.

[Rumrace]

I live in Toronto not in a budget area. One of the tax payers who has a legitimate claim to fare treatment.
A dirt cheap fixer upper is 1.2M.
If your disadvantaged say 4 kids from 4 guys you can get a 2m condo for $81.00 a month. Free boats next, why not.
There are 4 floating homes in Toronto Island. 2 are grandfathered but will be removed when the owners leave. The other two are completely illegal.
Several of the liveaboards in the city are real boaters. Some it’s a massive event when they leave the dock.
The Floating Homes in Grandville Island Vancouver are lovely great homes. Most have a great boat tied up beside them. They also sell in the millions. Can’t see it working out in Fla with a hurricane or Nova Scotia.
Dodging laws taxes living on the water must be appealing to some. I’ve never cared what their opinion is.

[Kinkircating]

I don't care for the premise of the video referenced by the OP, but it is absolutely true in our case it is significantly less expensive to be full-time cruisers on a 50' catamaran than our lives on land. Sure, a boat is a hole in the water you pour money into but so are homes with all the "stuff" you have to fill them up and the ease of twice daily Amazon deliveries. It's easily $100k/year less expensive, then considering having the excess capital from the home sale working for you instead of sitting in home equity it is an even greater disparity in cost.

Make no mistake about it though, it does come at a cost of comfort and convenience that at least while we are still young and healthy enough to enjoy is a compromise we are willing to make.

[GreenWave]

Originally Posted by Kinkircating

I don't care for the premise of the video referenced by the OP, but it is absolutely true in our case it is significantly less expensive to be full-time cruisers on a 50' catamaran than our lives on land. Sure, a boat is a hole in the water you pour money into but so are homes with all the "stuff" you have to fill them up and the ease of twice daily Amazon deliveries. It's easily $100k/year less expensive, then considering having the excess capital from the home sale working for you instead of sitting in home equity it is an even greater disparity in cost.

Make no mistake about it though, it does come at a cost of comfort and convenience that at least while we are still young and healthy enough to enjoy is a compromise we are willing to make.

100K per year less?!?!? Must have been a VERY nice house.



My house costs will be about 2x what my liveaboard boat costs will be. This considers costs of the residence, insurance, and core expenses directly related to the house/boat. However on an annualized basis that is no where near 100K. Now, if I look at total expesnes then the difference between the two scenarios is quite a bit less for the boat but that is in large part due to a chnage in lifestyle (and early retirement).

[Kinkircating]

Originally Posted by GreenWave

100K per year less?!?!? Must have been a VERY nice house.



My house costs will be about 2x what my liveaboard boat costs will be. This considers costs of the residence, insurance, and core expenses directly related to the house/boat. However on an annualized basis that is no where near 100K. Now, if I look at total expesnes then the difference between the two scenarios is quite a bit less for the boat but that is in large part due to a chnage in lifestyle (and early retirement).

Yep, one of those places that is tough to let go of because places like them rarely become available. Thankfully I had purchased at the depths of the last housing crisis, but holy hell it needed to be fed money. The sunsets never got old though, but I prefer now to have different back drops for those beautiful moments. I could see going back one day, but it won't be 7k sqft next time!

[Franziska]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

I heat my house with timber €190 a year but I fell it , split it dry it etc.

Houses can be very cheap if you labour it.

Of course I live 9 months in Greece on a boat , heating is cheap here too as it’s warmer than Portugal.

But overall I’d say the operating costs of the house are 50% of a boat

Please. Just stop imposing your specific situation as a general situation.

As I have explained there are other folks where your calculation House=Cheaper than boat does not add up.

For many its quite the opposite, we are just one of those cases.

[sailorboy1]

I wonder what it costs me to be on my boat. If I only knew for sure with no not counting

Living on a boat MAY be less expensive. A lot depends on whether you are just living or are cruising on a boat (for a definition lets same cruising is maintain the boat to regularly do a 24 hour sail).

I have a $100k boat and am currently paying $385/mo for a no thrills marina and this includes water/electricity. My daughter has a $100k 3br/2ba house here that is cost her $515/mo PLUS water and electric. Since I do most of the maintenance on both I can safety say the boat costs 4x+ to maintain.

No if I were in the Florida Keys and just living on a boat, even the mooring would be 1/4 of renting an apartment.

So if you want to just live on a boat is CAN be less.

FYI - got a "cheap: dinghy last month for $2k and still have to pay the $1300 for my car repair

[TrentePieds]

Hmm... In a distant suburb of Vancouver (60miles = 100km from city centre) a not very attractive 560SqFt 1 bedroom apartment in a not very attractive condo building rents for about $1,100/mnth, utilities extra. If you can find one.

Within Vancouver proper the equivalent thing rents for about $2,300/month. If you can find one.

The distant one necessitates the ownership of a car, the other one permits use of public transport.

For TP I allow a "sinking fund" for ownership and maintenance costs of $1,000/month. It always gets exhausted.

The unencumbered condo in which I live has trebled in APPRAISED value in nine years. The Condo Fees are $450/mnth.

The increase in asset value of the condo over nine years would have permitted me to absorb a total loss of the acquisition costs of the boat after a SINGLE year of ownership of the condo while retaining net worth, should such a loss have occurred.

The ONLY reason that wife and I can afford a boat is that we live ashore in a condo we own. :-)!

Through fairly intensive involvement in such things, I assert that on a portfolio of rental properties whose rents are within reach of the "common man", an operating budget for the portfolio predicated on a 75% vacancy rate overall, i.e. collecting nine months of rents for each unit in a calendar year, will, on a ten year horizon, cover maintenance and repairs and yield a reasonable return on owner's investment PROVIDED the owner has clear title! Financing acquisition costs on rental properties will knock that calculation for a loop.

Old, old story: You have to have capital to live cheaply and, in a very general sense, to save money.

TrentePieds

[Fore and Aft]

TrentePieds I like your reply. Last year some younger clients of mine really impressed me with what they had done. They purchased a house, managed to pay it all off with some serious effort then used that house as collateral to get a cheap loan to purchase a yacht to go cruising. No doubt they have also made some serious capital gains on the property.
The house/boat cost thing is interesting. For our house we pay $2400 in land tax and another $1800 in insurance yearly. Then I would say another $5000 in maintenance and improvements. Power is another $1200, so a total of $10,400 yearly. The yacht costs $6000 for the marina $1000 for insurance and then another $3000 or so for maintenance. So, living similar lifestyles would cost us close to the same regardless of being afloat or ashore. But if we moved out of the marina you immediately save the $6000 but lose access to laundry/showers/shore power/carpark and the ease of stepping on and off easily. Arguably your living standards have dropped, but the savings should help offset any inconvenience. The biggest issue once leaving the marina is to find a place that is convenient to moor the boat and liveaboard. That I suppose is the whole point of the thread. Any decent anchorage I know near work and the city is crowded and full of rough looking boats.
Cheers