Encouraging live aboards

[Fore and Aft]

Mike, I have no doubt it is, but is it easier? Plenty of times when it's rained for a solid week, I used to question our choices about living aboard.
I think the real issue Phycrooler is more annoyed about ferals on the water in unseaworthy boats. It's becoming a real issue it seems worldwide as the cost of renting has skyrocketed. In our neighbourhood (Tin Can Bay) right now there are two yachts beached in the mangroves and another sunk yacht with the mast out of the water. The owners seem to "magically" disappear, and the boats become someone else's problem.
I can see here in Queensland we will end up paying for the clean-up. We have 250,000+ registered vessels in our waters (A large majority would be trailer boats) and if the Government billed us an extra $10 on each registration, then we would have 2.5 million dollars every year to start removing wrecks. I think it's a finite problem for us we are not a big population and a lot of the derelict vessels I see are old steel yachts, ferrocement boats and custom-built vessels.
Cheers

[Pandor]

Originally Posted by alctel

The average house price where I live is now $1,200,000

My boat cost around 1/40th of that

Did you just bump up the $900k to $1.2M? Now I know you are out of touch with reality. Not knowing exactly where you live, I can’t confirm, but you must certainly be conflating the price of a house with the total price of the improved real property. But even then…

Real property is an appreciating asset. Maintenance on your $1.2M property is probably roughly equal to your $30K boat. You may make out short term living on that boat due to taxes and utilities, but long term the property will easily make you money while that boat will just continue to depreciate until some day it is worthless.

Also, $1.2M is well above average throughout Canada. And $30k is well below.

[Phyrcooler]

The point of my original post was not the debate of whether one can live cheaper on the water or not. I was somewhat irritated that a very popular dedicated cruising couple would produce a video that, when cut to its essence, was basically encouraging land dwellers to go buy a boat and move aboard. As has been discussed in these forums many times, these non-boaters trying to live on the cheap as “sneak aboards” in marinas and clogging up anchorages with dilapidated marginally seaworthy boats are creating headaches for all of us. Having these popular YouTubers trumpet that basic idea out to 3/4 of a million viewers is really a disservice to those of us actual boaters trying to actively use our waterways and anchorages. That is all.

[goboatingnow]

I can rent an apartment ( utilities included ) here in Greece for 6 months at half the price of my marina winter berth

I suspect 2022/2023 will be last winter on the boat. I’ll lift it out next winter

Comparing asset relative values is meaningless

If people are in a poverty trap where they can’t afford basic housing , it’s behoves a caring state to provide access to free or subsidised housing not force people into semi derelict boats.

[Lepke]

I have lived aboard most of my life since I was 13. That's 60+ years and most of that on the West Coast or on a ship. There's many people living aboard cheaply and mostly legally at back water marinas or some private dock. The docks are probably cheap, your shoes may get wet, power and water fail from time to time, but the rent is in their budget and their boats are probably old.

But it's a different life style than most people with houses and many with yachts would want. Poor parking, long way to town, not much social life and so on. But they have a quiet life that you can't buy in a house or most marinas. Most city people don't know what quiet is.

Last time I stayed more than a few days at a marina, I paid $1 foot. Diesel was about 27¢. Now I have a private dock, but in the past there was always someplace I could find that was inexpensive. I know they still exist.

In all that time I owned one house and hated every minute. I did make money. But I made money on my boats, too. My father, a sailor, told me a house is like a prison sentence. And he was right. He too, only owned one house, to please my mom. Whenever you could be out doing something fun or having an adventure, your home mowing, trimming, painting or fixing something. If you have a woman, your buying new furniture, drapes, or curtains every few years. You may do more work and spend more on a boat, but it takes you places. Where I live scenic, quiet places. Sometimes tuna fishing.

[goboatingnow]

People who liveaboard to sail and cruise , no problem. But no-one should be forced into a semi derelict boat cause they can’t access a house. That’s an abject failure of social housing policy. Where I am derelict boat living is restricted the literally a handful (6-10 country wide) of people who largely abandon this life style when offered a social house.

There are some people also living on the inland system , especially since the provision of specialised live aboard berths with pre plumbed sewerage electricity water etc.

[Franziska]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

No yacht is cheaper then a house !

Sorry, but that is utter nonsense. For the price of a house say 250 000€ you could buy many many used boats.
If you are not obsessed with marinas like some are, it can absolutely be cheaper.

[Franziska]

Deleted double post due to bad connection.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Franziska

Deleted double post due to bad connection.

Buy an asset it’s an asset it’s not cheap or dearer it’s like comparing a Toyota and a rolls Royce ,. So purchase price comparisons are nonsense

It’s “ operating costs “ you need to compare a boat kept in good condition , insured and maintained is a lot more expensive then a house

My house costs 150 to insure my property tax is 200 a year , my water and sewerage is free and my electricity is 17cent a KWH

My boat costs 750 to ensure , my marina bill runs to thousands , my cruising taxes run to 200. I pay for water and pump outs and my electricity is 29 cent per KWh

Maintenance on my house is minimal and on my boat runs to 1000s a year.

All I avoid living in the boat is avoiding chainsawing and chopping and splitting a stack of firewood every year !! ( mind you I like avoiding that dammed task )

Living on a boat is a voluntary decision. No one should be forced into that decision. On e itscs voluntary decision that’s fine.

Live aboard such never be seen in a functioning society as a substitute for proper social housing policy.

[Franziska]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Buy an asset it’s an asset it’s not cheap or dearer it’s like comparing a Toyota and a rolls Royce

It’s “ operating costs “ you need to compare a boat kept in good condition , insured and maintained is a lot more expensive then a house

My house costs 150 to insure my property tax is 200 a year , my water and sewerage is free and my electricity is 17cent a KWH

My boat costs 750 to ensure , my marina bill runs to thousands , my cruising taxes run to 200. I pay for water and pump outs and my electricity is 29 cent per KWh

Maintenance on my house is minimal and on my boat runs to 1000s a year.

All I avoid living in the boat is avoiding chainsawing and chopping and splitting a system of firewood every year !!

Well, you are imposing your usage case and costs on others.

Simply accept that there are many folks who can do this way cheaper by not incurring insurance costs, by rarely incurring marina costs, by doing a lot of the maintenance themselves.
Other than an engine mechanic once we have never had anyone working on our boat in the last 12 years.
We did everything ourselves and it was not overly strenuous.

Different folks have different usage cases.

[Rumrace]

Watch it ! You’ll offend the sensitive folks in free boats. They stalk us boaters who busted their ass to own a nice machine and call us names. Ouch like.
There seems to be a swell of those concerned they can’t get in on a rich man’s sport for free in several forums.
The “ I fixed it crowd “ burnt down two marinas I’ve been in.
I told members of one club to class action Sue their club for allowing dead boats and deflated dinghy’s to collect. $5,500 a dock and scrap yard view no thanks. Lucky they don’t allow live aboards.
Up north one by one every marina started to ban liveaboards on Servern and Trent rivers many lakes.
I think Midland had a couple but wintering on a boat anywhere near Georgian Bay is suicide.
With children you could be forcing your delusional romantic visions on children whom will eventually hate your guts.
Where do live aboards go on weekends?

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Franziska

Well, you are imposing your usage case and costs on others.

Simply accept that there are many folks who can do this way cheaper by not incurring insurance costs, by rarely incurring marina costs, by doing a lot of the maintenance themselves.

Different folks have different usage cases.

I’m only justifying with facts ( I know CF avoids facts ) my argument.

Even if I could moor for free , the boat would cost more to operate then a typical house.

In addition if I was destitute I could avail of a range of income supports that would be accessible in a house and not in a boat , bringing the costs down even more ( heating allowances , electricity allowances , destitute payments etc !

Hence I would never encourage non voluntary liveaboards , to me it’s an abject failure of society and morally bankrupt to see boats as a form of housing substitution.

Where I am there are many liveaboards all have houses , or other investments , rental income etc and are liveaboards purely by lifestyle decision

I’ve no problem with that

[Franziska]

We are equally liveaboards by choice and our boat is sailed actively.

I personally do not own a house and would not want one.
I know plenty of folks who do have houses though.
Perfectly happy living on the boat.

I guarantee you it costs me much much less than buying and maintaining a house in Germany.

Apart from the initial purchase I have no costs for electricity and water.
We have a lot of solar and a desalinator.

Running costs are sometimes fuel for the engine and 75l Diesel for cold days heating, which is enough for the cold season down here in southern Portugal.

Heating a house alone is much more expensive. Add electricity, insurance and so on to it...

[letsgetsailing3]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

No yacht is cheaper then a house !

As is often the case, proclaiming a definitive rule where none exists makes this an incorrect statement.

For MANY reasons.

Depends on the house, and depends on the boat. We could list cases where a house costs more than a boat, or where a boat costs more than a house. They both can have different sizes and locations, and it all makes a difference.

As others have pointed out, the cheapest boat may provide adequate shelter in a place like Key West for significantly less than what a house would cost. It may or may not be derelict. It will likely (but not necessarily) be much smaller. Many folks in Key West have availed themselves of this solution, but many lose their homes to hurricanes. Then again, so do many of their landlubber neighbors.

There are also the tedious issues of insurance, marinas, and taxes.

The more expensive the location, the more boats start looking like a reasonable alternative.

I think what you really mean to say is that boats may appear to be a lot cheaper than they really are, once you consider maintenance, which is ever present on both a house or a boat, but seriously critical on a boat, particularly if you ever intend to move that boat. Some people have no intention or need to move their boat, and that's where one often gets into the "derelict boat" discussion.

[letsgetsailing3]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Buy an asset it’s an asset it’s not cheap or dearer it’s like comparing a Toyota and a rolls Royce ,. So purchase price comparisons are nonsense

It’s “ operating costs “ you need to compare a boat kept in good condition , insured and maintained is a lot more expensive then a house

My house costs 150 to insure my property tax is 200 a year , my water and sewerage is free and my electricity is 17cent a KWH

My boat costs 750 to ensure , my marina bill runs to thousands , my cruising taxes run to 200. I pay for water and pump outs and my electricity is 29 cent per KWh

Maintenance on my house is minimal and on my boat runs to 1000s a year.

So what you're really doing is comparing your house to your boat.

And while this may be true, it doesn't support the more general case of all boats and all houses.