Buy and sell in 2 years

[Nucopia]

Originally Posted by syPhilos

I kinda wanted to reply to the topic starter, but it seems like the topic was succesfully hijacked and has become a completely unrelated "boat for sale" topic?

Yep couldn’t help your self could you

[JosephZawadzki]

Sorry pt49, I was trying to offer very cheap alternative for his dreams

[JPA Cate]

Originally Posted by fgrzadkowski

Guys,

I'm still looking for my perfect boat, and one thing isn't clear for me, hence this thread. My plan is to buy a solid blue water cruiser 45-50ft, refit it if needed, cruise it for 14 months and sell it as quickly as possible (to get the money back). Obviously I want loose as little money on this operation as possible. My budget is up to $250k.

Now, my concern is what's the optimal strategy here. Obviously I can't buy anything new. Should I target top brands (Oyster?) but 25+y old? Should I buy something cheaper (North Wind?) and younger? Or maybe a custom design? Is it more optimal to buy a yacht in poor condition, do a major refit and try to sell for a higher price, or should I look for something after a recent refit?

Any advice is welcomed! Also, if there's already been a similar thread, please point me there - I couldn't find it.

P.S. If this changes anything I'm from Europe and plan to sail Med and Caribbean and back.

OK, here's the original question, for your consideration.
Apologies for the thread drift, but feeling good that a new member could try and help out.

[Dockhead]

The OP has gotten good advice.


Refit would be total waste of time and money. The OP should buy a boat in exactly the condition he needs it to be in, and GO.


He should budget to lose 20% to 30% of his investment plus two years of repairs and maintenance, and be happy if he's lucky and does better than that selling.



He should be cautious about planning to quickly unload the boat when he's finished with her. It can takes a year or years to sell a boat, even at a good price.



In short, you should never buy a boat with money you need back in full or at any particular time. Only ever buy boats with mad money -- money you might get back in part but don't count on it. Therefore, when you only plan to use the boat for a limited number of years, there is a lot to be said for buying something cheap and cheerful, ESPECIALLY something old which has just been refit by some sucker, err, person with more love than financial sense.

[vadzlav]

Look here: yacht-mauritius.de
The website is under construction and will be ready in about 14 days.
If you are interested write an email to vjanik@jacom.de.
Sorry, I don't have much time because my flight to Kroation will be leaving in a few hours. I am on the yacht to apply new antifouling. I will be back in Germany on Sunday March 8th.
greetings
Volker

[DHLyman]

Buying a boat? First, is this your first boat? Second: how much experience in voyaging and boat ownership do you have? Are you a shipwright, licensed skipper? Have you worked in a boat yard on yachts?
I've owned 4 sail boats, 34 to 57 feet, each boat owned and sailed for at least 10 years, the Bowman 57 I owned for 14 years. I tell anyone considering purchasing a boat, to crew on OPB, Other Peoples Boats, first. Get some real experience on various boats.
Join SailOPO.com, the crew network. I've found crew on this site, a few wanted to experience what my boat was like before spending any amount on their first boat. Each year a hundred members join various size yachts on long and short deliveries.
One chap who was in the NARC Rally last fall paid $3500 to join a Swan on the delivery from Newport to Bermuda to St. Martin. He and his wife owned a 34-foot coastal cruiser, but wanted to upgrade and go offshore. When he got to Bermuda, he realized that offshore sailing was not going to be his thing, and flew home. He told me, "that $3500 i paid to join a Swan crew, was the best investment I've ever made. It showed me offshore voyages are not what I thought. I'll stick to coastal cruising, and save the $350,000 I was prepared to pay for an offshore boat."

[WolfgangSeaLife]

Contact Wolfgang Berg
Check my books on Facebook
I got what you want.
come over and I take you on a sea trial.

Originally Posted by fgrzadkowski

Guys,

I'm still looking for my perfect boat, and one thing isn't clear for me, hence this thread. My plan is to buy a solid blue water cruiser 45-50ft, refit it if needed, cruise it for 14 months and sell it as quickly as possible (to get the money back). Obviously I want loose as little money on this operation as possible. My budget is up to $250k.

Now, my concern is what's the optimal strategy here. Obviously I can't buy anything new. Should I target top brands (Oyster?) but 25+y old? Should I buy something cheaper (North Wind?) and younger? Or maybe a custom design? Is it more optimal to buy a yacht in poor condition, do a major refit and try to sell for a higher price, or should I look for something after a recent refit?

Any advice is welcomed! Also, if there's already been a similar thread, please point me there - I couldn't find it.

P.S. If this changes anything I'm from Europe and plan to sail Med and Caribbean and back.

[Jdc1]

In a nutshell you save your money when you BUY and are in a strong negotiating position. You lose money when you SELL and are in a weak negotiating position.

BUT as already said don't let this put you off fulfilling a dream, you just have to be a bit brutal when buying (or walk away) because the same will happen to you when you are selling.

Good luck.

[JosephZawadzki]

Originally Posted by DHLyman

Buying a boat? First, is this your first boat? Second: how much experience in voyaging and boat ownership do you have? Are you a shipwright, licensed skipper? Have you worked in a boat yard on yachts?
I've owned 4 sail boats, 34 to 57 feet, each boat owned and sailed for at least 10 years, the Bowman 57 I owned for 14 years. I tell anyone considering purchasing a boat, to crew on OPB, Other Peoples Boats, first. Get some real experience on various boats.
Join SailOPO.com, the crew network. I've found crew on this site, a few wanted to experience what my boat was like before spending any amount on their first boat. Each year a hundred members join various size yachts on long and short deliveries.
One chap who was in the NARC Rally last fall paid $3500 to join a Swan on the delivery from Newport to Bermuda to St. Martin. He and his wife owned a 34-foot coastal cruiser, but wanted to upgrade and go offshore. When he got to Bermuda, he realized that offshore sailing was not going to be his thing, and flew home. He told me, "that $3500 i paid to join a Swan crew, was the best investment I've ever made. It showed me offshore voyages are not what I thought. I'll stick to coastal cruising, and save the $350,000 I was prepared to pay for an offshore boat."

Hello, it's wrong recipient somewhat similiar names, myself ,Joseph Zawadzki i have made the Great Loop, sail and power, was trying to show original note poster that could be very cheap alternative 37 Irwin fully ready for any adventures for 25,000 C.$

[doog]

My neighbors buy bargain boats and make a bundle on them but it takes YEARS of surveying the entire local market to find these deals..Then they have major issues to deal with like serious engine work or rot repair..You could have done this in 2010 with financial distress deals leaving great boats for a song but now there is more of an economy going and ...Id suggest perhaps a third world boat of alternative construction built in Indonesia or ...but that's also sort of an unknown. You might also do your refit in the third world to save on labor costs. But no industry is one you can walk into and take a profit without years of knowledge and experience, a lot of luck or a very expereinced guide and helper..Youre going to have to pay your way. (I worked with a partnership of MD's who bought an 80 foot fishing boat and converted to a pleasure yacht for family..Its been decades and oodles of money and its yet to go anywhere)

[JosephZawadzki]

Originally Posted by doog

My neighbors buy bargain boats and make a bundle on them but it takes YEARS of surveying the entire local market to find these deals..Then they have major issues to deal with like serious engine work or rot repair..You could have done this in 2010 with financial distress deals leaving great boats for a song but now there is more of an economy going and ...Id suggest perhaps a third world boat of alternative construction built in Indonesia or ...but that's also sort of an unknown. You might also do your refit in the third world to save on labor costs. But no industry is one you can walk into and take a profit without years of knowledge and experience, a lot of luck or a very expereinced guide and helper..Youre going to have to pay your way. (I worked with a partnership of MD's who bought an 80 foot fishing boat and converted to a pleasure yacht for family..Its been decades and oodles of money and its yet to go anywhere)

Hello doog, wrong recipient, i was trying to show the original poster extremely cheap alternative; 37 Irwin "Reflections" for 25,000 C.$ boat set up for any cruising'
You are right take a lot money and patience to learn, done it the Great Loop sail and power

[Bunnellr]

For that time frame, do a comparison of renting vice buying. Known cost, known time of obligation for renting. Not chartering, renting. Buying that short means unknown unknowns.

[Wanton]

I think I really need to say this. What is wrong with renting or leasing a boat for the period and trip you want to use the boat for. Am I wrong to think that you can rent or lease yachts for specific period of time? There will be the cost of rental and you walk away from the boat when your trip is over. Just thinking out loud folks.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by fgrzadkowski

Guys,

I'm still looking for my perfect boat, and one thing isn't clear for me, hence this thread. My plan is to buy a solid blue water cruiser 45-50ft, refit it if needed, cruise it for 14 months and sell it as quickly as possible (to get the money back). Obviously I want loose as little money on this operation as possible. My budget is up to $250k.

Now, my concern is what's the optimal strategy here. Obviously I can't buy anything new. Should I target top brands (Oyster?) but 25+y old? Should I buy something cheaper (North Wind?) and younger? Or maybe a custom design? Is it more optimal to buy a yacht in poor condition, do a major refit and try to sell for a higher price, or should I look for something after a recent refit?

Any advice is welcomed! Also, if there's already been a similar thread, please point me there - I couldn't find it.

P.S. If this changes anything I'm from Europe and plan to sail Med and Caribbean and back.

OK, you've convinced me that might have enough sailing experience to jump into boat ownership but your financial plan isn't likely going to work and taking off with your family of 5 for ocean cruising right out of the box also has a high risk of being not much fun.

Financial hopes: Buy the boat cheap and READY TO GO. Anything you have to do to it is lost and will take way more time than you think. Have a realistic expectation of the maintenance and ownership costs. I'd plan on $500-$700 per month not including berthing, insurance, fuel and annual haulout costs (guess $3000 for that last one). So figure on $10-$15K/year for the boat. These costs will go onward while you wait for it to sell. Plan on $15-25K for the selling costs and taxes. So, as others have stated, you will spend up to $100,000 in lost expenses between when you buy it and when you sell it. AND that is NO REFIT. Buying a boat makes sense if you love sailing it and want to keep it for the long haul OR if you have money to walk away from.

Taking your family: If the five people you are talking about already have a love of sailing and are excited about this adventure it might work. But if they are new to ocean sailing you have long odds against a happy trip.

The best way is start off slow with local sailing, concentrating on fun not scary stuff and maybe continue to charter (to save money) until long term ownership (instead of a short adventure) seems like something you'd like to do.

[JosephZawadzki]

Originally Posted by wingssail

OK, you've convinced me that might have enough sailing experience to jump into boat ownership but your financial plan isn't likely going to work and taking off with your family of 5 for ocean cruising right out of the box also has a high risk of being not much fun.

Financial hopes: Buy the boat cheap and READY TO GO. Anything you have to do to it is lost and will take way more time than you think. Have a realistic expectation of the maintenance and ownership costs. I'd plan on $500-$700 per month not including berthing, insurance, fuel and annual haulout costs (guess $3000 for that last one). So figure on $10-$15K/year for the boat. These costs will go onward while you wait for it to sell. Plan on $15-25K for the selling costs and taxes. So, as others have stated, you will spend up to $100,000 in lost expenses between when you buy it and when you sell it. AND that is NO REFIT. Buying a boat makes sense if you love sailing it and want to keep it for the long haul OR if you have money to walk away from.

Taking your family: If the five people you are talking about already have a love of sailing and are excited about this adventure it might work. But if they are new to ocean sailing you have long odds against a happy trip.

The best way is start off slow with local sailing, concentrating on fun not scary stuff and maybe continue to charter (to save money) until long term ownership (instead of a short adventure) seems like something you'd like to do.

I like your reasoning that is why i offered my very cheap 37 Irwin for consideration,.