Buy and sell in 2 years

[woody6t1]

Hello everyone, Kia ora.
I saw in this thread that a couple of people had mentioned renting a vessel for the duration that the OP had mentioned.
Is renting the same as chartering? Is long-term chartering a viable option (by which I mean cheaper than the numbers the OP had mentioned and some replies have juggled numbers with)?


Thanks for considering my first post in the forum.


Cheers


Woody

[Montanan]

Originally Posted by DHLyman

Buying a boat? First, is this your first boat? Second: how much experience in voyaging and boat ownership do you have? Are you a shipwright, licensed skipper? Have you worked in a boat yard on yachts?
I've owned 4 sail boats, 34 to 57 feet, each boat owned and sailed for at least 10 years, the Bowman 57 I owned for 14 years. I tell anyone considering purchasing a boat, to crew on OPB, Other Peoples Boats, first. Get some real experience on various boats.
Join SailOPO.com, the crew network. I've found crew on this site, a few wanted to experience what my boat was like before spending any amount on their first boat. Each year a hundred members join various size yachts on long and short deliveries.
One chap who was in the NARC Rally last fall paid $3500 to join a Swan on the delivery from Newport to Bermuda to St. Martin. He and his wife owned a 34-foot coastal cruiser, but wanted to upgrade and go offshore. When he got to Bermuda, he realized that offshore sailing was not going to be his thing, and flew home. He told me, "that $3500 i paid to join a Swan crew, was the best investment I've ever made. It showed me offshore voyages are not what I thought. I'll stick to coastal cruising, and save the $350,000 I was prepared to pay for an offshore boat."

Thread drift.

The inherent problem with Rally sailing is that there tends to become group pressure and group think such that decisions can be improperly made as to sailing into adversity. The 2011 North American Rally to the Caribbean, NARC Rally was exactly that issue heading out of Newport on a very modest weather window, with projections that the weather was going to be the best that could be had for two weeks. Well the best there was going to be, was NOT GOOD ENOUGH. Shortly after leaving port a gale developed and built into tropical storm Sean trashing the fleet and leading to the loss of Jan Anderson and abandonment of several boats. The NARC Rally originated in 2000 initially as a delivery of 10 Swans. I can't imagine actually be suckered enough to pay to join such as a crew member of foolish fleet. But that is my opinion.
Scheduling a sojourn around an arbitrary date such as around November 1 is a ridiculous proposition. Weather does not establish itself around a calendar. And the so-called end of Hurricane Season is November 30th. I get that there are commercial reasons whereby it is desirous to get a fleet of new boats to market just before the start of the cruising / charter season, but such delivery schedule needs to be modified as to what nature provides. To then "invite" others to accompany such misadventure just becomes a group of lemmings. The concept of safety in numbers, can become just the opposite, danger because of numbers.

Sailing around a set schedule or a set destination is a fool's errand. That be sailing lesson #1.


Copied below is a NARC Rally Overview for this year, read it and you will get a sense of the inappropriateness of its scheduled centricity.


"Looking Forward to the 2020 NARC

This year waiting until after Election Day would mean moving the departure date from Newport too late, so this year we will depart on Tuesday Oct 27th 2020. This date still allows for a weather delay and time to reach Bermuda by election day results on Tuesday night, November 3rd. The fleet will depart Bermuda no earlier than Wednesday November 4th and arrive in St. Maarten 5 or 6 days later. So now you have the dates for the start of the NARC Rally and everyone can schedule accordingly.

2020 NARC Schedule Summary

Departure from Newport: Tuesday, October 27, 2020
Arrive in Bermuda: Prior to Tuesday, November 3, 2020
Depart from Bermuda: No Earlier than Wednesday, November 4, 2020
Arrive in St. Maarten: November 9 or 10, 2020"

[JPA Cate]

Social pressure; financial pressure, contract penalties for late delivery: all can put lives at risk. Some of us aspire to die in a non stressful way.

Ann

[Montanan]

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

Social pressure; financial pressure, contract penalties for late delivery: all can put lives at risk. Some of us aspire to die in a non stressful way.

Ann

Great aspiration, hoping none too soon Ann and Jim.

Determining the scheduling of a sojourn based on working around an Election Day [first Tuesday in November for the USA of even numbered years] and the beginning of November is

NARC 2020

"2020 NARC Rally Dates Announced
Each year the traditional end of the hurricane season is November 1st [Wrong premise, November 30th is the commonly perceived end of hurricane season, not November 1st.] and Election Day is always the 1st Tuesday in November. And we have been offshore every election year since 2000. Sometimes on our way to Bermuda, sometimes right after we depart.

Looking Back to Past NARCs

For President Obama's 2008 election we arrived to celebrations in Bermuda that would have made you think Obama was the newly elected president of Bermuda. In both 2000 and 2016 we had just left Bermuda on Monday the day before the elections and missed the entire 2000 hanging chad fiasco since we did not make landfall in St. Maarten until the weekend after the elections.

For President Trump's 2016 election we were also offshore on the second leg and so our Breaking News cycle was a two-minute satellite phone called simply saying Trump won the next day and nothing more.

Looking Forward to the 2020 NARC

This year waiting until after Election Day would mean moving the departure date from Newport too late, so this year we will depart on Tuesday Oct 27th 2020. This date still allows for a weather delay and time to reach Bermuda by election day results on Tuesday night, November 3rd. The fleet will depart Bermuda no earlier than Wednesday November 4th and arrive in St. Maarten 5 or 6 days later. So now you have the dates for the start of the NARC Rally and everyone can schedule accordingly.

2020 NARC Schedule Summary

Departure from Newport: Tuesday, October 27, 2020
Arrive in Bermuda: Prior to Tuesday, November 3, 2020
Depart from Bermuda: No Earlier than Wednesday, November 4, 2020
Arrive in St. Maarten: November 9 or 10, 2020"

[fgrzadkowski]

Thanks for all the insightful answers! This is really helpful.

@woody6t1 asked a very good question regarding renting/chartering:

I saw in this thread that a couple of people had mentioned renting a vessel for the duration that the OP had mentioned.
Is renting the same as chartering? Is long-term chartering a viable option (by which I mean cheaper than the numbers the OP had mentioned and some replies have juggled numbers with)?

Renting was actually my initial idea, but to be honest, I couldn't find any place specializing in it. Plus regular charter yachts are NOT suitable for such voyages. Any advice on this? Is it feasible to find a yacht for rental?

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by fgrzadkowski

Renting was actually my initial idea, but to be honest, I couldn't find any place specializing in it. Plus regular charter yachts are NOT suitable for such voyages. Any advice on this? Is it feasible to find a yacht for rental?

You might find an owner who doesn't have immediate plans for cruising that might be willing to rent to you.


You might even consider some sort of joint purchase with someone wanting to cruise later, either long-term, or in a 2 year burst like you. So you'd each put up half for the boat and insurance, and any major maintenance, then you have the boat (and all daily expenses, including upkeep) for your two years, then the other owner does, and then either one of you buys out the other, or you jointly agree to sell. Or you keep trading it back and forth every two years.

[Kolchac]

Originally Posted by fgrzadkowski

Guys,

...cruise it for 14 months .....

P.S. If this changes anything I'm from Europe and plan to sail Med and Caribbean and back.

I understand you are new in sailing. About the boat, I agree with gentlemen, who say "rent or chart".
But nobody asked: "are you ready for 14 months cruising?". Maybe after you lose an anchor over stormy night or after 10 hours at 28-35 kn wind and 7 - 10' of the sea you say: enough is enough. And most important - generally it is very boring. Can you live in a tent for 14 months?

[fgrzadkowski]

I really wonder why so many of you assume I'm new to sailing. The fact I've never owned a boat have nothing to do with how much I've sailed. Over the last 10-15y, I did around 8-10k miles on Baltic, North, Barents and Med seas as well as some on the Atlantic ocean. I'm not saying it's a huge experience, but I'd say it's far from nothing.

But going back to topic:
I guess I need to start making friends with boat owners If you happen to know someone in Europe let me know

[dave777]

Originally Posted by fgrzadkowski

I really wonder why so many of you assume I'm new to sailing. The fact I've never owned a boat have nothing to do with how much I've sailed. Over the last 10-15y, I did around 8-10k miles

They're probably assuming you're new to sailing because of your questions about how much you'll recover the "investment" of refurbishing a boat.


Given your very extensive sailing experiences on those boats, you must know a few owners very well and they would likely be your best people to ask

[passage_paul]

Originally Posted by fgrzadkowski

I really wonder why so many of you assume I'm new to sailing. The fact I've never owned a boat have nothing to do with how much I've sailed. Over the last 10-15y, I did around 8-10k miles on Baltic, North, Barents and Med seas as well as some on the Atlantic ocean. I'm not saying it's a huge experience, but I'd say it's far from nothing.

But going back to topic:
I guess I need to start making friends with boat owners If you happen to know someone in Europe let me know

That assumption is rampant here. No matter what your past experience or knowledge base is.. if you ask any question, 90% of the responses will be... "blah blah ..you dont have enough experience..blah blah."

There are those who ask.. and there are those who answer. If you ask..you dont know nuthin bout nuthn.. and those that answer know everything about everything.. trust me. there is a pattern among some.. easy to identify.

I suggest that if you ask a question that you also post your personal resume so you can be herded into the right category.

Not everyone is that presumptive. I have met some outstanding folks here that are very helpful without assuming you don't know your abcs. However the vast majority will attempt to diminish your value while attempting to elevate theirs. It is common in online forums. If you ask about pancake mix.. it will be assumed you have never even seen a stove!

I do far more pming than posting. Watch for those gems.. and hang onto them and you will get the best advice.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by fgrzadkowski

I really wonder why so many of you assume I'm new to sailing. The fact I've never owned a boat have nothing to do with how much I've sailed. Over the last 10-15y, I did around 8-10k miles on Baltic, North, Barents and Med seas as well as some on the Atlantic ocean. I'm not saying it's a huge experience, but I'd say it's far from nothing.

But going back to topic:
I guess I need to start making friends with boat owners If you happen to know someone in Europe let me know

I, for one, apologize for making that assumption, but you didn't give us much to go on, and your query sounded so much like an unrealistic newbie that maybe we jumped to conclusions.

[passage_paul]

Forums and sharing work much better when people just answer the question rather than trying to evaluate someones capabilities or motivations.

[woody6t1]

@Montanan. I think you could have stopped at "thread drift" or was the rest of your message an attempt at irony?


Cheers


Woody