Defending your boat (pirates, angry mobs of fisherman etc)

[shrspeedblade]

Something I did based on what ships of old used to do by having a "safe room" they could lock themselves inside was to cut a 2x6" board to the perfect length to wedge shut the companionway hatch. It even sits nicely across the cockpit to sit behind the wheel for a highly practical purpose!

That paired with the ability to take pictures and upload them quickly and modern communications is probably a better deterrent than packing heat. Keeping the boat secured at night while sleeping anywhere of concern is no different than locking the door of your house, the big difference being no one can climb through the windows!

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

There really is a mixed message in this thread:

A) Piracy against cruisers is deadly serious and a significant existential threat to cruisers in certain areas

B) Most pirates are weak, ill-equipped opportunists and can be chased off by some chest-thumping and a shotgun.

So... which is it?

Both at the same time. I read the reports. Most of the reports indicate that the pirates have strength in numbers, various sharp and blunt weapons, and in many cases one or more firearms, usually pistols. That's enough to pose a serious hazard to unarmed cruisers, but none of the pirates on the boat are going to want to be the first one up against a cruiser defending themselves with a shotgun.


For clarity, a pump shotgun (with the proper ammunition and in capable hands) is a formidable weapon and not just a movie prop.

Originally Posted by Simi 60

But surely we can judge the decision made to go into these clearly unsafe areas in the first place.

If it's A, why would any sane person choose to risk transiting those areas alone in our pretty little pleasure-boats? We're cruisers, not merchant marine. We can choose where and when to cruise.

Transiting some of the bad areas is unavoidable for certain popular itineraries. Lots of people are willing to accept some risk in order to be able to get to the Panama Canal, for example, or from the Indian Ocean to the Atlantic. What we're discussing here is a means of mitigating some of that risk.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

There really is a mixed message in this thread:

A) Piracy against cruisers is deadly serious and a significant existential threat to cruisers in certain areas

B) Most pirates are weak, ill-equipped opportunists and can be chased off by some chest-thumping and a shotgun.

So... which is it? If it's A, why would any sane person choose to risk transiting those areas alone in our pretty little pleasure-boats? We're cruisers, not merchant marine. We can choose where and when to cruise.

...of course the obvious retort is: well, it's both. Just depends where. And those mobs of angry fishermen to boot. But if I had my gun aboard...

Cop-out. if you possess the truth, share it. Post more of those links.

Mixed message? The coke stoned pirates with rusty shotguns and machetes will kill you without thought. Not just killing, they pick your eyes out or hack you into pieces with their machete. These are actual cases in Venezuela I talk about.
The fact that I and other armed cruisers escaped unharmed doesn’t mean you get to whitewash piracy. They have killed and raped and severely wounded hundreds of cruisers over the years, how can you marginalize it?!

You roll your eyes even after watching the video of the guy single-handedly fending off a boat full of well armed pirates and the video of the mob of angry fishermen murdering countless while taking selfies. What is wrong?

Originally Posted by shrspeedblade

Something I did based on what ships of old used to do by having a "safe room" they could lock themselves inside was to cut a 2x6" board to the perfect length to wedge shut the companionway hatch. It even sits nicely across the cockpit to sit behind the wheel for a highly practical purpose!

That paired with the ability to take pictures and upload them quickly and modern communications is probably a better deterrent than packing heat. Keeping the boat secured at night while sleeping anywhere of concern is no different than locking the door of your house, the big difference being no one can climb through the windows!

All commercial ships that care about their crew have safe rooms. This is today and every couple weeks they have a piracy drill.

If you think that posting pictures in Facebook is gonna bring help to you in time to arrest the pirates then I have nothing left to say

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

Mixed message? The coke stoned pirates with rusty shotguns and machetes will kill you without thought. Not just killing, they pick your eyes out or hack you into pieces with their machete. These are actual cases in Venezuela I talk about.

The fact that I and other armed cruisers escaped unharmed doesn’t mean you get to whitewash piracy. They have killed and raped and severely wounded hundreds of cruisers over the years, how can you marginalize it?!

I haven't marginalized it. I have stated that I believe (lacking further proof otherwise) it's not very common globally, and where it IS known to be a significant risk, it's perhaps wisest to not cruise there. Or to have some better defensive strategy like escorted convoys.

You roll your eyes even after watching the video of the guy single-handedly fending off a boat full of well armed pirates and the video of the mob of angry fishermen murdering countless while taking selfies. What is wrong?

I roll my eyes at the idea that some might be getting, that cruiser + firearm = safety. Despite all the caveats that you and others have given about having training and experience.

[Exile]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

* * *

I roll my eyes at the idea that some might be getting that cruiser + firearm = safety. Despite all the caveats that you and others have given about having training and experience.

And despite the evidence and informed opinions we've read that it can and does. Just like a life raft in the face of a sinking or burning vessel, there are no guarantees, no "(A)" or "(B)". And whichever way one comes down, the topic doesn't deserve being reduced to disrespectful "Rambo" or "chest-thumping" comments designed to belittle and inflame.

A boat is uniquely vulnerable given the medium and circumstances it lives in. There are some who are simply unwilling to follow what may or may not be good advice to acquiesce to a hostile encounter and lose control of what may follow. If you've never been confronted with that scenario it's nothing but hubris, imo, to be so judgmental.

[GreenHeaven]

Some people with real world experience (more than a decade cruising the world) choose not to participate in these threads because "people on the forum are in a delusional state about guns"

His real word experience, shared with permission, is summarized as:

We personally know 5 boats that were attacked/robbed at gun or knife point.

Except where guns were forbidden, in Mexico and Japan we carried guns. We also carried grizzly bear spray.

A good friend killed 2 Panamanian fishermen who attacked the boat, fishermen with a 38 against an ex-marine with a 45. The Panamanian authorities denied the incident happened and then changed their story to "no one was hurt!"

However, the best defense is avoidance...

I suspect that there are more than a few people with different opinions than the experts on this forum.
Please, share them!

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by Exile

And despite the evidence and informed opinions we've read that [cruiser + firearm = safety].

No caveats, no acknowledgment of risks and tradeoffs... have a gun aboard, you'll be safer. Is that what you're saying?

It's fun when belief systems collide.

Truth be told... like with Mike O'R's example of towns with polar bears, I can acknowledge the utility of a firearm when out sailing in remote parts of the world. Hunting for survival, signalling distress to a nearby boat or settlement, and yes, repelling attack. As long as the owner had some proof of firearm competence that's a bit higher than just having a valid credit card.

[GreenHeaven]

Originally Posted by Exile

WHOA! Way off-topic. Among other obvious faux pas, nobody is talking about taking a legally declared firearm or other lethal device off the boat!!

calm down. Nor am I. It was suggested that a determination of acceptable practice be made before arriving in a country. Unless I misunderstood this, he is saying that if the country does not permit firearms, dont go there.
Im saying that is not a practical suggestion.

Others have said AVOID THESE AREAS and then talk about Venezuela which is an obvious AVOID. But what about the RED SEA?

how to get in from or out of the Indian ocean and suez without running that hot spot?

go around?

[Exile]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

No caveats, no acknowledgment of risks and tradeoffs... Get a gun, you'll be safer. Is that what you're saying?

It's fun when belief systems intersect.

Hardly. Don't mischaracterize posters' thoughts. It's not "nice".

[GreenHeaven]

Originally Posted by Iron E

Try this

PERFECT thank you!

[Bowdrie]

You don't have to be an "expert", but there are certain things that every man should know.
Numbers 62, 64, and 87 should be high on the list.
https://www.artofmanliness.com/skill...n-should-know/

[Exile]

Originally Posted by GreenHeaven

calm down. Nor am I. It was suggested that a determination of acceptable practice be made before arriving in a country. Unless I misunderstood this, he is saying that if the country does not permit firearms, dont go there.
Im saying that is not a practical suggestion.

Others have said AVOID THESE AREAS and then talk about Venezuela which is an obvious AVOID. But what about the RED SEA?

how to get in from or out of the Indian ocean and suez without running that hot spot?

go around?

My understanding is that the Red Sea isn't so hot anymore due to a strong NATO naval response. With the caveat that there's an ongoing civil war in Yemen.

[GreenHeaven]

Originally Posted by shrspeedblade

Something I did based on what ships of old used to do by having a "safe room" they could lock themselves inside was to cut a 2x6" board to the perfect length to wedge shut the companionway hatch. It even sits nicely across the cockpit to sit behind the wheel for a highly practical purpose!

That paired with the ability to take pictures and upload them quickly and modern communications is probably a better deterrent than packing heat. Keeping the boat secured at night while sleeping anywhere of concern is no different than locking the door of your house, the big difference being no one can climb through the windows!

I would LOVE to discuss this topic further!

There are problems securing a companionway and deck hatches big enough to get a person through.

You will need steel bars. The will try to break in. The will use implements. possibly a sledge hammer.
Steel bars and fibreglass superstructure would need to be prohibitively large and reinforced for such an attack over a period of hours.
Hatches secured how? if they smash the cover and tie a rope to your bars and hit the gas in their boat, those bars are going to come out of there like toothpicks.

A safe room is steel and concrete with heavy door for good reason. If you are going to go that route, you are betting your life on the strength of that design. It will have to be your design, because beneteaus dont have a safe room option.

Then what if they hole the boat and wait for you to come out as it sinks?

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by GreenHeaven

I would LOVE to discuss this topic further!

There are problems securing a companionway and deck hatches big enough to get a person through.

You will need steel bars. The will try to break in. The will use implements. possibly a sledge hammer.
Steel bars and fibreglass superstructure would need to be prohibitively large and reinforced for such an attack over a period of hours.
Hatches secured how? if they smash the cover and tie a rope to your bars and hit the gas in their boat, those bars are going to come out of there like toothpicks.

A safe room is steel and concrete with heavy door for good reason. If you are going to go that route, you are betting your life on the strength of that design. It will have to be your design, because beneteaus dont have a safe room option.

Then what if they hole the boat and wait for you to come out as it sinks?

I can't imagine how barracading oneself inside a fragile little pleasure-boat while invaders mill about outside could ever end well. But claustrophobia does that.

They could just tow it (or sail it) to wherever...

[GreenHeaven]

Originally Posted by Bowdrie

You don't have to be an "expert", but there are certain things that every man should know.
Numbers 62, 64, and 87 should be high on the list.
https://www.artofmanliness.com/skill...n-should-know/

Well I know how to sail a boat, do pushups and fire a gun, a shotgun, BUT shooting a person, even a pirate or angry mob leader is a very different thing.

Its not possible to practice, so I would hope that the threat of gun is enough as in the video linked.

THE PROBLEMS with carrying a gun on board are numerous. Its always a consideration in every decision. Its not relaxing having to constantly have that responsibility in the back of your mind.

It would seem to make snese to conceal it. You could hide a handgun in the liferaft or disguised as machinery in the engine room cover, but a 12guage is another matter. Spinnaker pole?

Then there are access problems. When you need it, you need it quick. Then there are corrosion problems, jamming problems, ammo storage problems. Then there is the problem of procuring one outside of the US. Its all a giant headache. Soon the firearm just takes center stage in the cruising instead of the snorkelling and beaches,

But its hard to deny its utility when you need it