Defending your boat (pirates, angry mobs of fisherman etc)

[stevensuf]

Umarex makes a range of "less lethal" c02 powered rubber bullet type guns, that are legal in many places without license. These guns can be easily modified to quite high power levels, capable of breaking ribs etc They could be a useful deterrent in a boarding situation.

[s/v Jedi]

Too much to quote so instead some general remarks:

About ballistic cover, firing range etc. : none of that is applicable. The only goal is to escape the pirates unharmed, it’s not a show of force or a law enforcement task or naval escort duty etc.

I’m not going to repeat the book again, always gave me grief in the past.

On the piracy off the Venezuelan coast: I was being pretty precise: about 50% of all cruisers departing Isla Margarita were being attacked. One friend was attacked and robbed of everything, then attacked again by different pirates not an hour later. Those got real angry when there was nothing left to plunder.

Yes, it was that bad. Not anymore because cruisers left the area. Many cruisers sailed along the mainland coastline towards their next destination and this increases chance of being attacked dramatically as you are observed and “handed over” to pirates in the direction you move.

The only help from Venezuelan authorities was while being anchored there, but this was limited to guidance over what was allowed for defense and what not.

[Simi 60]

Originally Posted by BG305

Have you ever ran up on a SV in a panga without knowing the captain of that SV? I will go out on a limb here and say almost 100% of the members on this forum have never done something like that. The answer why, none of us are pirates.

Happens every weekend here
Boats all heading to one destination at some point start to converge with faster boats approaching other vessels from behind.

Must be pirates in your mind.

[Simi 60]

Originally Posted by Jammer

.

I have the luxury of living, working, and sailing in areas that are largely free of violent crime. I try not to judge the decisions of people who lack this luxury.

I agree
But surely we can judge the decision made to go into these clearly unsafe areas in the first place.

[GreenHeaven]

Originally Posted by Adelie

If that were the exact title somebody would flag the first post for review by the mods and if I were the first one to respond I would delete the thread.

Depending on the consensus of mods after discussion we would either undelete the thread and bump it or leave it deleted and send you a PM stating what had happened and why. In the case of this exact wording I'm betting the consensus would be to leave it deleted. Different wording, maybe different outcome.

If we decided to leave it deleted and you wanted to appeal, you could flag the PM you received about the deletion being permanent and make your case in the flag description box.

We would add this to the existing discussion and drag additional mods into the discussion for fresh eyes so it's not the same group making the same decision. Usually the deletion stands, occasionally some or all of us change our minds and we reverse ourselves.

Thank you for that explanation
I would welcome some assistance with the language of the title
I think its clear what the topic is.
The justification for this is that, as cruisers we dont live in one country, or even on land, so when discussing words like unregistered, illegal and concealed, the question becomes illegal where? unregistered where?

WE carry EPIRBs but we hope to never use them. when the moment comes that you have run out of other options, at least you have something to reach for even if you are untrained and risk problems in another country

As far as I know, its not possible to fly with a gun, so the idea of buying and registering a gun in the US that you take to the red sea is impossible without sailing with it from the US. So where does that leave an honest cruiser

Is it possible to have a discussion like this?

Oh and could you insert a comma in the title between ANGRY MOBS and FISHERMEN

(One angry fisherman equals at least 20 angry people in a mob imo)

[GreenHeaven]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

The point is - hot-button contentious issues with little relevance for cruisers aren't welcome here. So the ones that were way off-base or got stupid have been deleted.

But some remain, and are easy enough to search for with the forum search tools. Here's a basic search for "guns aboard".

Since this thread hasn't yet reached boiling point... it might be the most informative thread here on your original questions.

thx for trying but

Sorry - no matches. Please try some different terms.

(((

[Iron E]

If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by GreenHeaven

thx for trying but

Sorry - no matches. Please try some different terms.

(((

My apologies. There were plenty of matches but apparently the way the search URLs are generated is not linkable. Do try the search yourself.

[JPA Cate]

Green Heaven:

I just tried the CF Custom Google Search. It is located in 7th position under the Search menu. FYI, this search is best for concepts. The forum search is case sensitive, and not so good for concepts. Try "guns for protecting sailboats." You will get some hits on the first two pp.

Ann

[Iron E]

Try this

[Nicholson58]

The simple response is don’t go where:

The pirates are
The authorities don’t care, have no clout
Lethal response lands you in jail

There are plenty of nice venues. You don’t need to see every corner of the planet. Stay safe. The alternative is not fun.


We have cruised most of the eastern Caribbean for eight years. We avoid the places known for dinghy theft and worse. That means St Lucia, St Vincent and Roseau, Dominica. In the BVI, the pirates wear government uniforms and work at Customs and Immigration.

[ixnax]

Originally Posted by GreenHeaven

You make some good points but, running away from a 20kt skiff in a 8kt sailboat is not possible

AK47s. yes if they come with those, a shotgun is useless, nut if you fire it in the air and they fire an AK in the air, you can still surrender it, If they back off like in the video, then you averted a boarding

as for give them the stuff, this is not so simple. Some of these guys dont like witnesses. They also think nothing of raping women.
the friend of the friend died. He had no weapon and probably offered no resistance.
Once you surrender, your life is truly in the balance


Even taking the dingy and leaving the boat is bad idea if you are far at sea. You will die of dehydration in a day or two under a blistering sun. A liferaft has no propulsion so unless they put you in it, might as well not bother

But im also asking about the angry mod who you accidentally inflamed unintntionally who now want to kill you. Yes it happens esp in mus lim countries. talking to the wrong girl, Nudity. sex on the beach etc etc

AK47s. yes if they come with those, a shotgun is useless, nut if you fire it in the air and they fire an AK in the air, you can still surrender it, If they back off like in the video, then you averted a boarding


Too many if's. If you fire a shotgun in the air and they spray you with automatic weapon fire in return there are fewer if's, including the if they let you surrender. If, in the video they were intending to board then the shotgun guy got away with a pretty dumb play, in my view. Myself, I like a shotgun for home defense. But not a pump and I've shot thousands of shell from a pump. Better an automatic like the Beretta 1301 Tactical loaded with buckshot I prefer. No pistol or rifle that is legal can beat it. But on a boat it's a different story. Even if I did have my preferred Beretta I'd damn sure wait to see what arms I was up against before showing mine and if I was up against AK-47's I'd consider the battle lost.

[GordMay]

If you're attacked by a mob of angry clowns ...
Go for the juggler.

[s/v Jedi]

Unfortunately some posters try to whitewash security issues, especially in places like St Lucia. I still don’t know if this is out of fear or some deep instinctual affection for pirates in general, but the fact is that piracy is considered one of the worst and most violent crimes and victims are hurt badly in these life changing assaults.

Also, it is not something of the past, it happens all the time, right now. If you take a little effort you can find the proof easily but it seems not many will post those links (hide the truth?)

This means you will have to do the research yourself. Just simply Google will find it. For example, here is how you are assaulted inside your boat in St Lucia last year: https://safetyandsecuritynet.org/incident-2876-2/
Many cases aren’t reported to this cruisers net.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

...the fact is that piracy is considered one of the worst and most violent crimes and victims are hurt badly in these life changing assaults.

There really is a mixed message in this thread:

A) Piracy against cruisers is deadly serious and a significant existential threat to cruisers in certain areas

B) Most pirates are weak, ill-equipped opportunists and can be chased off by some chest-thumping and a shotgun.

So... which is it? If it's A, why would any sane person choose to risk transiting those areas alone in our pretty little pleasure-boats? We're cruisers, not merchant marine. We can choose where and when to cruise.

...of course the obvious retort is: well, it's both. Just depends where. And those mobs of angry fishermen to boot. But if I had my gun aboard...

Also, it is not something of the past, it happens all the time, right now. If you take a little effort you can find the proof easily but it seems not many will post those links (hide the truth?)

This means you will have to do the research yourself.

Cop-out. if you possess the truth, share it. Post more of those links.